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OLD FARM HOUSE UNDER SCOTMANS FLASH

Started by: shiny (94) 

is it true there is a old farm house under scotmans flash - does anyone have pics before the flash.my nan told me ages ago about it.

Started: 5th Dec 2007 at 12:17

Posted by: tonker (23315) 

Sometimes, when the water's low, you can see the tip of it's television aerial sticking out of the water. With a seagull perched on it. Probably. Or probably not?

Replied: 5th Dec 2007 at 13:47

Posted by: coccium (2569) 

My dad came from Chapel Lane and he always said there was a farm under the flash.

Replied: 5th Dec 2007 at 16:46

Posted by: xrh59 (inactive)

Yes i once saw the farmer trying too start his tractor,but he'd flooded it! i think it was a fish farm,lol.

Replied: 5th Dec 2007 at 17:05

Posted by: danni (inactive)

its an urban myth

Replied: 5th Dec 2007 at 18:21

Posted by: stuart (283) 

Ive always been told there is.

Replied: 5th Dec 2007 at 20:55

Posted by: danni (inactive)

there was plenty mining round there so there might be some kind of building who knows?

Replied: 5th Dec 2007 at 21:34

Posted by: mickey love (20)

There are some buildings under the water i dont know if it was a farm or what

Replied: 5th Dec 2007 at 22:22

Posted by: john joseph (3197)

Scotmans Flash, a sixty acres expanse of water, formed at the end of the nineteenth century by mining subsidence with the water depth from approximately Four Feet to twenty five feet.

not very deep to hide a Farm

info from wigan sailing club records

JJ

Replied: 5th Dec 2007 at 23:56

Posted by: ©art© (6154)

Scotsmans(Pearson & Knowles)Flash,was caused by mining subsidence, & before Wigan Sailing Club ever went on it, Wigan Sea Cadets (TS Lady Crawford SCC), were sailing there for years...I was one of 'em. I don't know whether it's still there, but on one of the bar pillars in the Market Hotel, (dunno what it's called now), is a pic of the Rob-Jolly boat we used to sail, With CPO Harry Melling stood before the mainmast

Replied: 6th Dec 2007 at 01:56

Posted by: katryn (399) 

I have heard that theres a small village under Pennington Flash is that true?

Replied: 6th Dec 2007 at 15:24

Posted by: tonker (23315) 

There'll be something under somewhere next. How about Atlantis lyimg under that pond in Mesnes Park.

Replied: 6th Dec 2007 at 16:07

Posted by: shiny (94) 

no need to be flipant , tonker .

Replied: 6th Dec 2007 at 17:35

Posted by: spud1 (inactive)

I have never heard of any buildings under Pennington Flash,there could be,it was formed the same way as the other Flashes.Pennington was much bigger than it is now,it reached the main road,but a lot was filled in,when it was used as Leighs main rubbish dump in the 50s.

Replied: 6th Dec 2007 at 18:47

Posted by: tonker (23315) 

Flippin' 'Eck!

Replied: 6th Dec 2007 at 20:20

Posted by: alanrabster (62)

tonker if you can;t give a sensible reply do not comment yes there is a farmhouse under scotchmans flash

Replied: 8th Jan 2008 at 15:21

Posted by: tonker (23315) 

Oooohhh, Get HIM! Goose Greeeeeeen!

Alan.
I can see you're a 'newby', so you obviously know loads and need to make your impression.
Firstly, read back through this topic and take note what john joseph wrote, then consider this as a follow up:-
.... The deepest section of 'Scotsmans Flash' is the valley, along which flowed Ince Brook ...
So, the 'deepest' section is 25', enough to cover a farmhouse maybe, but would a farmhouse be built in a brook? No! The rest of it is shallow, 4' to 6' deep.
My conclusion, therefore, is this ....
'There is NO farmhouse under Scotsmans Flash'.

Now, is that 'sensible' enough for you, Alan?

PS ... Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear!

PPS ... AND, Goose Green is in Pemberton, not Wigan!

Replied: 8th Jan 2008 at 20:20

Posted by: andee (78) 

y'know alan may be right in his thinking - he say scotchman's flash - this may be a different flash - seriously tho' - find the farmer's name, phone him up and watch for any bubbles coming to the surface, you never know he may be waiting for the rain to stop

Replied: 26th Jan 2008 at 21:35

Posted by: tonker (23315) 

Every Scotchman has a farmhouse under his Tam 'O' Shanter !

Replied: 26th Jan 2008 at 22:28

Posted by: xanadu (5)

When we were digging out the foundations for Wigan Sea Cadet boat shed we found it hard work because of the buried house bricks. A guy came up to us and said they were from the farm house that used to be there.

Replied: 28th Oct 2008 at 16:40

Posted by: disco_diva (inactive)

I have heard the same thing about Pennington Flash.Dont know how true it is though.

Replied: 28th Oct 2008 at 19:30

Posted by: brendan (1502)

Let me put you right once again tonker. There is a farmhouse in the middle of Scotsmans Flash.Many years ago when the water was very clear, we used to go swimming in the flash.About 50 yards out from the canal, we used to go under the water. Going down about 15 feet, we could easily see the old farmhouse.

Replied: 28th Oct 2008 at 21:30

Posted by: tonker (23315) 

Brendaft ... You talk shite.

There has never been a farm where Scotsmans Flash is now. Neither has there been one where Pennington Flash is now.

Mining subsidence might have helped to hold the water, but there has always been flooding along that fault line.
In any case, mining subsidence doesn't create 15 feet of subsidence. The 'flash' is only 6 feet deep.

It's a tale, told to lads, by dads, year after year until it becomes 'true'.

Replied: 28th Oct 2008 at 23:04

Posted by: brendan (1502)

tonker you are full of misknowledge. I have swam in the Scotsmans and dived down it. I have seen the farmhouse.

Replied: 28th Oct 2008 at 23:12

Posted by: tonker (23315) 

Brendaft, the shite you are full of could fertilize a field big enough to feed five thousand!

Replied: 28th Oct 2008 at 23:39

Posted by: europa (23)

Tonker - Goose Green isn't in Pemberton - it's in Goose Green in Wigan - same as Winstanley is in Wigan and Pemberton is in Wigan....etc etc.

Replied: 28th Oct 2008 at 23:51

Posted by: tonker (23315) 

Goose Green is in Pemberton. FACT.
Marus Bridge is in Winstanley.
Highfield is in Pemberton.
Worsley Mesnes is in Pemberton.
Winstanley is in Winstanley.

Since 1972, all have been in the Metropolitan Borough 'OF' Wigan (local government area).
Wigan itself is also in that local government area and Wigan is a separate place to all the others.

Replied: 29th Oct 2008 at 00:20

Posted by: ©art© (6154)

Tonker is in La-La-Land, chewin' on 'is Do-Do...........Fact

Replied: 29th Oct 2008 at 00:28

Posted by: tonker (23315) 

Art, Get to Bed. You'll never get up in the morning!

Anyway, you know I'm right.

Replied: 29th Oct 2008 at 00:38

Posted by: sonlyme (2813)

Anyone got any scuba diving gear?

Replied: 29th Oct 2008 at 09:12

Posted by: ©art© (6154)

When the Sea Cadets were using Scotsmans Flash, we didn't have a boathouse. The boats were left on the flash & the two x 2 man canoes were housed in a barn belonging to an old farm as you came down the entry off the main road to the flash.
The barn at the time was being used by a skin curer,(stunk rotten). Rabbit skins etc. pegged out all over the walls.
About 1951/2, we moved all the boats & equipment to the 'cut at Appley Bridge, by the side of the British legion,(it was a wooden shed then), & Finch House nearby was still lived in.
The skipper of the sea cadets at the time was Walter Somers (Olivers' son)

Replied: 29th Oct 2008 at 09:28

Posted by: bennielechat (5762)

I believe that in the 1950s Finch House in Appley Bridge was split up into flats.My parents lived in one before I was born.

Replied: 29th Oct 2008 at 09:43

Posted by: brendan (1502)

Tonker me and my mate have been into the farmhouse. It looks like it has been raining in. Only about 50 deep.Not hard to get down to.

Replied: 29th Oct 2008 at 17:13

Posted by: ©art© (6154)

The people living in Finch House in the 50's, were the Dowding family. John, who was in the sea cadets, his mother & his sisters, twin girls.
it was demolished & replaced by the Finch Mill estate, (the one that flooded in the 60's/70's)

Replied: 30th Oct 2008 at 01:21

Posted by: moodysue (inactive)

this is all new to me... i never heard this said before.... it's interesting though

Replied: 30th Oct 2008 at 20:14

Posted by: xrh59 (inactive)

But not true Moody.

Replied: 30th Oct 2008 at 20:55

Posted by: moodysue (inactive)

Thats a shame...would have been more interesting if it were...

Replied: 30th Oct 2008 at 22:03

Posted by: elizabeth (5439) 

Talking of =Flashes = is it true there is one at the far side of Ince Cemetary I was told as a child that some of the graves had been flodded by it and the coffins were seen floating on it as being very old the coffins would be made of proper wood and the contents would not by then be heavy so there -fore would float / True or not ??

Replied: 1st Nov 2008 at 08:29

Posted by: moodysue (inactive)

speaking of coffins apparently my grt grandads coffin was blown to top when a bomb fell on goose green.... and me grt granma said........ he wer to bloody nowt lie down when he wer livin and hes to bloody nowt lie down naaaaa as hes deud... i guess he had a temper

Replied: 1st Nov 2008 at 09:01

Posted by: trewyth (42)

I too was told as a child that there was a farm under Scotsmans Flash but I think it is just a myth. If you look at old-maps.co.uk there is no sign of any building where the Flash is now.

Replied: 8th Nov 2008 at 08:53

Posted by: brendan (1502)

It is there. I have swam into the front room.

Replied: 8th Nov 2008 at 20:01

Posted by: reddi8 (1107)

The Finch house belonged to the Wrightington Estate and I remember going with my aunt to collect the rent.

Replied: 9th Nov 2008 at 07:52

Posted by: fred rosbottom (1930) 

would have to see it before I believed it

Replied: 9th Nov 2008 at 11:00

Posted by: carol gr (910) 

Tried to get onto old maps uk - have used recently - can find server - is it a problem else where - I am in Brunei? Gutted cos was great site. Can some one try it?
ta

Replied: 9th Nov 2008 at 12:57

Posted by: veg grower (inactive)

There is definitely a farmhouse underneath Pennington Flash - I have seen photographs of it - taken one hot summer when the water level dropped.

Replied: 9th Apr 2013 at 14:48

Posted by: dustaf (inactive)

Stick to topic you wrong un resurrectionist.

Thread is about Scotmash. Not Pennington Flash.

Replied: 9th Apr 2013 at 14:57

Posted by: mache (inactive)

It could be a farm labourers house, not a farmhouse

Replied: 9th Apr 2013 at 14:59

Posted by: Mac (inactive)

Or a really bad (Or good) bedwetting farmer?

Replied: 9th Apr 2013 at 17:29
Last edited by Mac: 9th Apr 2013 at 17:29:17

Posted by: sonlyme (2813)

How did he know it was the front room?Did it have better curtains than the others.

Replied: 9th Apr 2013 at 19:47

Posted by: veg grower (inactive)

The telly was in there.

Replied: 9th Apr 2013 at 21:27

Posted by: stevejmac14 (634) 

There might or might not be a farmhouse in Scotsmans, but I heard there's a 300lb, 18ft long pike in there capable of eating cattle, is it true?

Replied: 9th Apr 2013 at 22:51

Posted by: doodle (59)

My grandma was born in poolstock in 1897 and lived there for 70 yrs ,i once asked her about the supposed farmhouse.She said it was a myth and Scotsmans was an old gravel pit.No farmhouse but maybe there could be some form of building relating to the workings.

Replied: 10th Apr 2013 at 04:15

Posted by: doodle (59)

The pike we used to call Scarface,people said they had seen it take ducks off the surface ,again a load of nonsense.

Replied: 10th Apr 2013 at 04:17

Posted by: Mac (inactive)

I heard it lived in the house and did nothing all day bar sitting in an armchair wearing kippers and smoking a pike.
Only codding.

Replied: 10th Apr 2013 at 12:24

Posted by: baker boy (15541)

a mate of mine said there was part of a stone wall somewhere in the middle he had seen it in the summer of 59 when the water level was very low,and yes at one time the flash was home to some seriously large pike and perch.

Replied: 10th Apr 2013 at 21:46

Posted by: baker boy (15541)

does any one think the building of the pemberton loop line circa 1885/89 had anything to do with the land flooding.

Replied: 10th Apr 2013 at 21:48

Posted by: ©art© (6154)

Flashes are usually the result of mining subsidence, & Pearson & Knowles Pits were in that area..

Replied: 11th Apr 2013 at 01:18

Posted by: burtspieeater (73)

Scotsman Flash is approx 12 inches deep at its shallowest- when canoeing you are unable to paddle normally!

Replied: 12th Apr 2013 at 19:53

Posted by: sonlyme (2813)

Try going further out.

Replied: 13th Apr 2013 at 15:05

Posted by: mick-dorset (3062)

speaking as an original hawkley hall'er, ( i was one of the first people to be born on that estate in the late 60's) I was always told there was a farmhouse under scotmans flash, but then again i was also told there was a 'pathway' where you could walk across the middle of the flash from one end to the other that was only knee deep at the most,- both of which i doubt very much

Replied: 13th Apr 2013 at 23:36
Last edited by mick-dorset: 14th Apr 2013 at 17:42:34

Posted by: ayrefield (4465)

I tell ya tis true, I was the farm dog and it's just under all about here.

Replied: 14th Apr 2013 at 12:37

Posted by: bella (796)

my grandad told me about the farmhouse under scotsmans flash

Replied: 23rd Apr 2013 at 22:59

Posted by: melodyman (107)

Mine you! Didn't that old farmer McDonald own it and because of that 'Dammed' leaking roof he buggered off in his big mac with a couple of sheep and some chickens to open a fast food place?

Replied: 23rd Apr 2013 at 23:28

Posted by: spudmagoo (1167)

I was born in Byrom St Poolstock and my Dad used to tell me and my brother about the farmhouse. And if you look at old 19c maps you can see that all of that area was farmland. You can find the maps online but I have misremembered how.

Replied: 26th Apr 2013 at 11:52

Posted by: tonker (23315) 

"... I have misremembered .."

Replied: 26th Apr 2013 at 13:50

Posted by: spudmagoo (1167)

Great word! Is it a neologism?

Replied: 26th Apr 2013 at 14:24

Posted by: melodyman (107)

How many neologists are using this site?

Replied: 27th Apr 2013 at 09:54

Posted by: melodyman (107)

Who needs Oxford when we have Wigan!

Replied: 27th Apr 2013 at 09:55

Posted by: melodyman (107)

On the topic of farms!
Didn't every kid, during the sixties,seventies and eighties, in the Wigan area hear, from one source or another, about a farm being under the water surface of Scotsman's Flash?

Probably, by the end of that long hot summer of '76, more than 50% of the population of Wigan had been down to Scotsman's Flash to see if the tale were true.

And?

Replied: 27th Apr 2013 at 10:05
Last edited by melodyman: 27th Apr 2013 at 10:55:26

Posted by: dougfilli (1)

Hi
I spent my youth playing in and around the scotsmans, the depth ranged from zero on Heathcoats land to a max of around 16'feet.In th late 1940's 47/48/49, one year we had torrential rain and the flash flooded really high and sea cadets boats broke free from their moorings, they used to moored about 60yds from Heathcoats land. Anyway one of the canoe's drifted up on the railway side and my mate Kieth Wignall and I had a ball we spent allday in this canoe and when we had finished we rowed into the rush beds near the island and tied it down with the rushes. When we went back to find it a few days later we could not find it the water had risen by aroud two feet and only the tops of the rushes were showing.It was in the late 60's twenty years or so later that I saw it again it had been wash up to the wall on the canal side all the canvas had rotted, it was good to see an old friend that gave us so much pleasure that day.
By the way in 1959 it was a really hot and dry spring and summer the scotsmans flash was lower than I had ever seen it, another mate of mine Gerald Hodgekiss went for swim, we got in from the railway side Gerald got into his bus innertube and I just swam accross to the island. When we started back we paddled heading for the tunnel that that goes under the railway line and we walked all the way back to within 30yards of the railway embankment,and the water was no more than knee deep all the way across except once when we got level with the cuvert Gerald decided he would walk across to it he took two step and dissapeared we had a good laugh at that.

Replied: 15th Apr 2014 at 19:31

Posted by: baker boy (15541)

theres a wall in the middle, in 1959 the flash was at its lowest ever seen and that INCLUDES 1976.there is no farmhouse,mr heathcote's farm buildings where the farmhouse for that land/water.

Replied: 18th Apr 2014 at 23:35

Posted by: dave marsh (inactive)

Anyone who watched Bergerac on TV may be interested to know that the farmhouse he lived in with his girlfriend is now at the bottom of a reservoir.

Replied: 19th Apr 2014 at 12:38

Posted by: staffbullterrier (2224)

great story doug
happy days

Replied: 15th Dec 2014 at 11:17

Posted by: GOLDEN BEAR (3470) 

Is the seagull alive or is it a false one?

Replied: 17th Dec 2014 at 00:30

Posted by: tonker (23315) 

Sorry, my mistake. It's not a seagull. It's a pigeon, called Walter!

Replied: 17th Dec 2014 at 09:43

Posted by: flaggy delf (523) 

There is an old building under Pennington Flash...for a photo see Bob Blakeman's Wigan...A(n) Historical Souvenir P27

Replied: 17th Dec 2014 at 13:52

Posted by: tonker (23315) 

Bob Blakeman's Wigan? What the hell is Pennington Flash doing in a book about Wigan?

Is there anything about 'the real Wigan' in it?

Replied: 17th Dec 2014 at 15:06

Posted by: winder (1293)

There was a Worsley Mesnes farmhouse on the Northwest corner of the flash but it doesn't look like it was in the water.
Maybe the fields belonging to the farm are under the water.

Replied: 17th Dec 2014 at 17:29

Posted by: flaggy delf (523) 

winder the ruins are those of the medieval Urmston in the Meadows house

Replied: 17th Dec 2014 at 19:10

Posted by: winder (1293)

Urmston?

This is a 1927 map showing where the farm was.

map

Replied: 18th Dec 2014 at 11:30

Posted by: flaggy delf (523) 

Winder the Urmston in the Meadows building is the one pictured in the above mentioned book that stuck up out of Pennington Flash at one time.I think your farm at Worsley Mesnes may be the one a chap I know delivered milk from.

Replied: 18th Dec 2014 at 15:26
Last edited by flaggy delf: 18th Dec 2014 at 15:33:14

Posted by: stevejmac14 (634) 

There's a farmhouse loaf in Scotsman's if that's any help. I know cos I chucked it in.

Replied: 21st Dec 2014 at 16:30

Posted by: franky (268)


Every Scotchman has a farmhouse under his Tam 'O' Shanter !

No such thing as a Scotchman you peanut, its a Scotsman.

Replied: 10th Jan 2015 at 03:35

Posted by: tonker (23315) 

But, in this case, it's actually 'Scotman'!

Replied: 12th Jan 2015 at 18:36

Posted by: daviessb (86)

Maybe this will help or if it doesn't it's good to have. You can layer the maps and zoom in. Change the transparency and view what is there now. Even aerial view ones
http://mario.lancashire.gov.uk/agsmario/default.aspx

Replied: 15th Feb 2015 at 23:15

Posted by: tonker (23315) 

Daviessb's LINK!

PS: Too bloody hard for me is that!

Replied: 15th Feb 2015 at 23:33
Last edited by tonker: 15th Feb 2015 at 23:37:14

Posted by: daviessb (86)

It's better on a computer than a tablet. Could be more user friendly but the detail is great. Thanks for the link tonker

Replied: 16th Feb 2015 at 10:55

Posted by: baker boy (15541)

a stone wall and that's all

Replied: 2nd Mar 2015 at 19:44

Posted by: kirstiefish01 (6)

New here , just
Come across this we
Live backing onto flash & been digging bottom of garden , found old clogs , pans , lots of bricks lots of milk bottles a coal holder lots
Of bottles very interesting ????

Replied: 7th Apr 2021 at 11:09

Posted by: bentlegs (4613)

Kenny Cunliffe & Roy Darbyshire lived in that farm under Scotsmans Flash,Tonker should know he was their Buddy.& there was a Chippy next door,

Replied: 7th Apr 2021 at 16:49

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (6855)

kurstyfish

There was a farm there, but not where the Flash is, and looking on the map, and depending on exactly where in Rushdene yoo are digging, you could be digging on the site of the old farm buildings

MAP

Replied: 7th Apr 2021 at 17:24

Posted by: tonker (23315) 

No she couldn't. Her row of houses are built on where the actual flash was and was filled in!

Si'thee 'ere!


"Roy Darbyshire, Roy Darbyshire"!

Replied: 7th Apr 2021 at 23:17
Last edited by tonker: 7th Apr 2021 at 23:27:56

Posted by: kirstiefish01 (6)

Thankyou Tommy ????

Replied: 9th Apr 2021 at 13:45

Posted by: tonker (23315) 

???????

Why thank someone for giving you false information?

Replied: 9th Apr 2021 at 18:09

 

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