Is it as serious as it's made out to be?

Started by: tonker (23286) 

Well, weigh it up yourself, using these figures .....

Office of National Statistics, in 2019 -

"There were 616,014 deaths registered in the UK in 2018, an increase of 1.5% from 607,172 in 2017".

Same Office of National Statistics, in 2020 -

"Of the 405,534 deaths that occurred in England in 2020 (and were registered by 10 October), 41.0% (166,168 deaths) occurred in hospital, compared with 46.2% for the five-year average."

Using this 'official' information, it follows -

2018 total deaths = 1688 per day.

2020 total deaths = 1409 per day (rounded up to year end at week 41 average. Due to daily Covid19 deaths now falling, the final figure will be less).

Taken that 27% of the 2018 figure were attributed to 'respiratory disease' ....... what does this tell you?

Started: 26th Dec 2020 at 17:59
Last edited by tonker: 26th Dec 2020 at 18:02:22

Posted by: momac (11457) 

Tonks..covid itself gives respiratory problems.Ive had the covid and I'm still getting out of breath

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 18:28

Posted by: tonker (23286) 

BUT .... and it's a BIG but ..... covid19 wasn't 'all the go' in 2018!

D'y'know! Can't you analyse the information I've provided? Weigh it up? Fathom it ouyt, laaaaike?

Simplified, it says that there are less deaths per day THIS YEAR, where we've had coronavirus 'killing' hundreds a day, than there was two years ago, when the majority of people had never heard of coronavirus and nobody wore a mask, nobody stopped in, all shops and businesses stayed open and World economies were fine.

'Them Men' can't allow 'Us Men' to become complacent. They can't afford a war, so they've put us all in a brown paper bag and shook us all up a bit.
Create a bit of debt here, a bit of debt there, hey presto! 'Them Men' can all relax, because 'Us Men' are peddalling a bit faster, all thanks to 'Covid19'!

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 18:51

Posted by: momac (11457) 

Tonks,don't even try to insult me.I can fathom it all out thank you very much laaaaike..I know something underhanded is going on,just not made my mind up yet..I do know there's an awful lot of folk that are heartbroken from losing their families.

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 19:05

Posted by: tonker (23286) 

There was a lot more heartbroken folk, who had lost a lot more family members, back in 2018!

I'm not trying to insult anyone, but do you know what S.A.R.S. actually stands for?

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 19:12

Posted by: tomplum (7259) 

Tonker your argument would stand up if, it only affected the West But, its a worldwide pandemic , Airlines, tourist trade, cruises, and almost every industry in the WORLD is worried, and get this,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,The illegal drug trafficking has been affected, The authorities throughout the World had been trying to stop it for decades and they could't, covid stopped it inside 9 months,
Covid is real and we've not got rid of it yet, its fighting back now with new mutations, its set to go on, its unstoppable,

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 19:20

Posted by: momac (11457) 

Severe acute respiratory syndrome.
Read Toms reply,that makes more sense.

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 19:24

Posted by: tonker (23286) 

Tom, ALL viruses mutate. That's how they survive.

The reason the illegal drug trade has been affected is due to more care and attention being given to travellers. They're actually 'finding' more drug shipments.

Brexit will also affect illegal drug trafficking, in a bigger way!

Now then, yes, it's a Worldwide problem. So, explain WHY the daily death-rates have dropped this year?
If coronavirus was killing people like they say it is, surely there'd be more deaths this year than in previous years?

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 19:44

Posted by: tomplum (7259) 

its called number manipulation, figures lie and liars figure,
My theory is China started it because they want power, they tested on themselves to divert suspicion, then they killed it off in China but, they've let it rip through the world and dare not offer the antidote to anyone because that would prove its them that caused it, So after the pandemic is won, there'll be war on China,

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 19:52

Posted by: Platty (386)

With you on this one Tonks. Saw a news item about China 2 days ago, all sitting outside, inside, everywhere, no masks, laughing, no businesses closed, no working from home. I think something will happen here in June when the Brexit "deal" kicks in and people are looking the other way.

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 20:02

Posted by: gaffer (6650) 

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 20:13

Posted by: tonker (23286) 

Tom, various laboratories are cultivating viruses and selling them to China (and the rest of the World) all the time. I think the Chinese eating bats idea is B/Sh.
It's ripped through everywhere else, true, but, again, WHY is this 'covid-infested' year, 2020, produced less deaths overall than years previously?

You only think covid19 is killing people because you believe what you've been told. I believe it isn't by looking at facts and figures then comparing them with practical evidence.

A top respiratory disease specialist was on telly, a few months ago, talking about this subject. He said, "We, at the frontline, see these deaths on a daily basis, year in, year out".

When you say, "number manipulation, figures lie and liars figure," you can also use that against the media. I'd rather believe officially recorded statistice than what I see on the telly or what Wigan council say.

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 20:13

Posted by: cheshirecat (65) 

I agree with Tonker and Platty.
My own opinion is that this goverment of ours are using deflective tactics to take everyones mind off the forthcoming storm when brexit has kicked in..
They will will blame everything on this virus.
I hope I'm wrong.

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 20:20

Posted by: tonker (23286) 

Gaffer, the figures I show are for the UK (as a whole).
Your link shows a monthly figure for England and Wales only. It also compares a week in December, 2020, with the average for the same week years 2011 to 2014. These years were unusually low.

See this graph of years 2000 to 2018!

From that graph, in 2018 the UK showed a 11.55% increase in deaths from the 2011 figure. The 2020 figure is falling well behind 2018 (a year without covid19?)

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 20:27
Last edited by tonker: 26th Dec 2020 at 20:42:44

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (6813)

Platty said:

"I think something will happen here in June when the Brexit "deal" kicks in"

It kicks in, in just over five days time

Brexit Countdown

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 20:53

Posted by: tonker (23286) 

TTS, what was agreed on on the 24th is only provisional. It has to be agreed by the EU parliament and the UK parliament. Even then it'll be stretched out over several 'transitional periods'.

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 21:14

Posted by: raymyjamie (6847)

The reason that the death rate is falling is that people’s lifestyles have changed.
Not everybody, but most people are social distancing.
You go in a supermarket and 99.9% of folk are wearing face masks.
So in an attempt to stop the spread of Covid we are also screening ourselves from Flu and other contagious viruses.

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 21:49

Posted by: tonker (23286) 

Possible, Ray, but unlikely. Although that could be a contributary factor.
If you look at my post, above, and link to that graph, you'll see that the death rate fell from 2000 to 2001, 2003 to 2006, 2008 to 2009 and 2010 to 2011. Then 2013 to 2014 and 2015 to 2016.

In none of those years did anybody wear a mask, stay in, not go to the pub., steer clear of crowds etc..

Due to what you suggest is a 'safer lifestyle', the death rate will probably rise in the near future, because people will not develop antibodies against other respiratory diseases due to not being exposed to them.

I'm not a doctor, but I'm not stupid!

Ladies, I'm not a qualified gynaecologist but I'll have a bloody good look at it for you!

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 22:13

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (6813)


The British Parliament will agree to the deal in 'Principle' on Wednesday, subject to Scrootiny, meaning that the British Prime Minster will sign off the deal into law under the executive powers he has available to him as Prime Minister, at the same time European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, will doo the same on behalf of the European Yoonion, because all the EU countries will need to scrutinise the deal, and vote it 'officially' into EU law, just the same as our Parliament will debate the 'Deal' (whinge) in Parliament, and vote it 'officially' into UK law.

I think you may be thinking about several 'grace' periods, which will allow more time to get the paperwork in order, but the 'Deal' just covers the trade agreement, all the other stuff, regarding visa requirements were sorted out last year under the 'Withdrawal Agreement' and if you intend to go to the EU for 90 days or less then you don't need a visa, if you want to go for longer, then you will need a visa, that arrangement will last for five years, but bear in mind that applying online for a visa is a piece of wee

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 22:14
Last edited by Tommy Two Stroke: 26th Dec 2020 at 22:16:39

Posted by: raymyjamie (6847)

“If you look at my post, above, and link to that graph, you'll see that the death rate fell from 2000 to 2001, 2003 to 2006, 2008 to 2009 and 2010 to 2011. Then 2013 to 2014 and 2015 to 2016”
You make sense Tonker, I should’ve studied the figures.

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 22:23

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (6813)


Floo does kill a lot of people every year, and it is mainly the elderly and people with underlying health problems, but this year with people under lockdown, and the groups of people I have just mentioned self-isolating all year, then the flue is not getting to them is it, so that is why there is a lot less floo deaths, but the deaths from Covid have kept the numbers of death around about the same.

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 22:24

Posted by: tonker (23286) 

TTS, like most people, myself included, you are only scratching the surface.
What you said is, more or less, a repeat of what I said only worded differently.
The 'grace periods' what you say will be for 'getting paperwork in order', are not what I meant.
I meant 'transitional periods' like the fishing, which will take five years to change and still the EU will have to agree to how it progresses then.

As for 'getting a visa being a piece of piss', well, it might be for some select few, like students, contract workers, holidaymakers (who goes on holiday for over 3 months?) etc...
To stay in Spain, for instance, for over 90 days in any 180 days, I'll have to get a TIA, which means an appointment for a face to face interview.
That's the third stage, after NIE (got) and empadronamiento (got). The TIA leads to residency, but they won't let you have dual nationality, you have to leave the UK.
Even the 'tariff free' carriage of goods are going to be costly.

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 22:43

Posted by: tonker (23286) 

TTS, very few people have died of coronavirus alone and the death figure for this year is way down.

Replied: 26th Dec 2020 at 22:48

Posted by: chatty (8136) 

I was under the impression the reason for the lock down wasn't to stop people catching it, that would be impossible, it was to ensure enough people didn't catch it at the same time meaning the NHS didn't crash from the amount of people needing medical attention at the same time?
So pointing out how many people have died this year is probably not the statistic that should be highlighted?
The powers that would probably use the above post and say because they took the measures they did in the face of a worldwide pandemic....."very few people have died of coronavirus alone and the death figure for this year is way down." ???

Replied: 27th Dec 2020 at 00:29

Posted by: gaffer (6650) 

You’re right Chatty. The real measure, both human and financial, is the number of people who have been infected with the virus and recovered.
There aren’t any official figures yet but the best estimates of the numbers of people who survived after a coronavirus infection is around the 90% mark. Much of this is down to the incredible response of the medics and scientists in developing treatment patterns that have transformed the care for COVID patients. However, many survivors have unfortunately been left with debilitating symptoms.

Replied: 27th Dec 2020 at 09:35
Last edited by gaffer: 27th Dec 2020 at 10:36:32

Posted by: firefox (3239)

Replied: 27th Dec 2020 at 09:37

Posted by: gaffer (6650) 

Replied: 27th Dec 2020 at 09:39

Posted by: firefox (3239)


Replied: 27th Dec 2020 at 09:42

Posted by: tonker (23286) 

Fifteen years ago (2005) - "Given fears that the virus will mutate to a more contagious form, experts continue to warn of the potential for a full-blown pandemic"....

So it did, and so it will.

Replied: 27th Dec 2020 at 13:17

Posted by: bentlegs (4612)

The Pigeons did it,

Replied: 1st Jan 2021 at 16:27

Posted by: tonker (23286) 

August 2020 showed the LOWEST number of monthly recorded deaths in the UK since 2015.

2020 showed the LOWEST number of recorded deaths in the UK since 2017.

Worldwide, in 2020, all deaths involving Covid 19 have exceeded 1 million.

Worldwide, all years before 2020, average deaths due to respiritory diseases exceed 6 million.

All recorded data which is available to view!

Replied: 1st Jan 2021 at 17:03

Posted by: Platty (386)

Tonks, my dad died in an August and the consultant told me that in England most recorded deaths were in August because people get flu/colds, respiratory stuff December to February, but it needs treating during those months and works its way through to August.
I know that was slightly off point but it's always facinated me.

Replied: 1st Jan 2021 at 18:23

Posted by: tonker (23286) 

Actually, the most deaths are recorded in the winter months. It's called the 'excess winter deaths' factor.
August is always the lowest month. It's when undertakers take their fortnight in the Canaries!

This year (2020), April had a massive increase in deaths. The rest of the year has been very low.

Replied: 1st Jan 2021 at 18:35


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