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murder

Started by: watchalot (977)

does any body remember murder of a mr james at no 13 harper st
we lived at no 11 at the time must be about 58 yrs ago
it was opposite to st pats club/the houses now gone in harper st
there is now gardens there

Started: 3rd Jun 2009 at 20:42
Last edited by watchalot: 16th Jun 2009 at 18:31:49

Posted by: watchalot (977)

surely someone remembers it has everybody lost there memory

Replied: 15th Jun 2009 at 19:12

Posted by: joymcs (75)

Hi Watchalot do you know if the club houses were once named Club Row? i had ancestors living in Club Row Scholes/Hardybutts was wondering where this Row was

Replied: 15th Jun 2009 at 19:48

Posted by: dennisd (624)

I can remember a young boy being murdered in Wigan around that time - I think a person named 'Green' was either the name of the murderer or the name of the boy - I think it was somewhere around Wallgate area.

Replied: 15th Jun 2009 at 22:02

Posted by: dennisd (624)

I have just checked on Google and found :-

Norman William Green - 27th July 1955. Executed at Liverpool for murder at Wigan

Replied: 15th Jun 2009 at 22:08

Posted by: marieg69 (3359)

what was the name of the murdered boy

Replied: 15th Jun 2009 at 22:10

Posted by: cath476 (881)

Many years later there was another Green jailed for murdering his wife. his name was Warren Green and I think his wife was Julie. She was a nurse and they lived on Gidlow Lane - I think the funeral directors bought the house.

Replied: 16th Jun 2009 at 00:26
Last edited by cath476: 16th Jun 2009 at 11:02:09

Posted by: watchalot (977)

to dennis d the boy was murdered at the bottom of miry lane an industrial units there now

Replied: 16th Jun 2009 at 09:25

Posted by: elizabeth (5439) 

This would be around the time my son was missing ( but thank God Found in Southport) and there had been 3 boys murdered at that particular time ,that is why there was a big search for him, is that what you were talking about Dennis I think the murderer came from off Market st leading down to the Grand Hotel

Replied: 16th Jun 2009 at 10:15

Posted by: xrh59 (inactive)

Twenty five year old Norman Green was hanged on Wednesday, the 27th of July of 1955 for stabbing two young boys to death and attempting to stab a third. His first victim was 7 year old William Mitchell who had been playing near the canal at Wigan when he was stabbed in the chest by a man who he described as having blonde, almost white hair. Fortunately, William survived. His next victim sadly didn't. He was 11 year old William Harmer, who suffered 11 stab wounds, all inflicted with a small penknife at Wigan on the 27th of August 1954. Green struck again on Easter Monday, the 11th of April 1955, when he killed 10 year old Norman Yates in the same way, also at Wigan. As before, witnesses reported that the man seen running away from the crime scene had almost white hair. Green was arrested and when confronted with the forensic evidence, admitted killing both boys and decided to plead insanity. This he did at his trial in Manchester in the summer of 1955 but after 4 hours of deliberation, the jury rejected his defence and found him guilty. He did not appeal but his defence petitioned the Home Office for a reprieve on the grounds of insanity. This was rejected and Green was hanged by Albert Pierrepoint on the morning of Wednesday, the 27th of July 1955.

A job well done by Mr. Pierrepoint say I.

Replied: 16th Jun 2009 at 10:48

Posted by: xrh59 (inactive)

William Harmer was the boy from down Miry lane.

Replied: 16th Jun 2009 at 11:23

Posted by: mojim (1679)

Little William used to go past our house a lot and he was a quiet little soul,I also got told that Green came from Hallgate.

Replied: 16th Jun 2009 at 14:04

Posted by: elizabeth (5439) 

Mojim Thanks for that couldnt remember ==Hallgate__ My son was taken from outside the house by Francis Ball who came from think the address was Lord St off Swinley

Replied: 16th Jun 2009 at 14:35
Last edited by elizabeth: 16th Jun 2009 at 15:49:21

Posted by: xrh59 (inactive)

Green was Albert Pierrepoint last hanging,(Walton) needless to say when Albert had finished with them they never re offended again.

Replied: 16th Jun 2009 at 15:09

Posted by: watchalot (977)

apparently mr james was murdered by his lodger who he through out with his pregnant wife the day before and he returned that night and killed him with a hammer or could it be an hommer

Replied: 16th Jun 2009 at 18:30
Last edited by watchalot: 16th Jun 2009 at 18:31:09

Posted by: the_gwim_weaper (inactive)

First Mmurder in Wigan I remember was Ethel Riley...Dunno why I remember her name..I know the accused lads were found not guilty so her killers are still at large. Wonder if they have nightmares about her now?

Replied: 16th Jun 2009 at 18:36

Posted by: mojim (1679)

Elizabeth,that must have been a nightmare for you,and Xr there's a lot of people(if that's the right word for them)who I'd like to have met Pierrepoint,and to have been the last person they saw.

Replied: 16th Jun 2009 at 18:53

Posted by: bumper (311)

There are 6 cold case murders in wigan.and there murders have still not been found.

Replied: 16th Jun 2009 at 19:51

Posted by: watchalot (977)

my sister heard him screeming but she used to have nightmares and my dad told her she was dreaming apparently not

Replied: 23rd Jun 2009 at 20:07

Posted by: ©art© (6154)

xrh59,Billy Mitchel (in your post above), was an owd mate o'mine. Never liked to talk about that incident with Green.
turned out to be a grand lad.

Replied: 24th Jun 2009 at 00:53

Posted by: ©art© (6154)

Norman Green came from Richmond St off Hallgate, & worked at Charlestons Corn mill, Britannia Bridge, behind Twiss' transport cafe. Walked with a limp & known as "Stiffy"

Replied: 25th Jun 2009 at 02:00

Posted by: grenofen (1)

Norman Green came to Wigan with his family from the North East of England,and settled in Hallgate 3 doors from the bottom and exactly opposite the Blue Coat School.I know this as I was born in Hallgate and used to play with Norman and his brother Alec and other kids.He seemed to be normal to me then.His nickname was Snowball.

Replied: 16th Oct 2009 at 12:01
Last edited by grenofen: 16th Oct 2009 at 12:17:05

Posted by: dave marsh (inactive)

Hi dennisd,xrh59,mojim and others,Billy Harmer came into my class at St Thomas's at the age of 10 in 1952.I remember him being a real lovely lad in every way despite the many traumas he had already faced in his young life. R.I.P. Billy you are not forgotten.

Replied: 16th Oct 2009 at 15:15

Posted by: mojim (1679)

Hi Dave,I remember little Billy going past our house in Great George St when I was a child,and yes Dave he looked a good little lad.When Wigan pier museum was open there was some black and white photos of men queuing up for their dole money,Billy's Dad was at the front,and I still remember his mum,....he definitely won't be forgotten.

Replied: 16th Oct 2009 at 15:28

Posted by: mojim (1679)

Sorry Dave,I'd already told you about him going past our house....silly me.

Replied: 16th Oct 2009 at 15:33

Posted by: dave marsh (inactive)

Mojim,it's good to talk to someone who remembered Billy.He had been in care and as a result had a distinctly more refined accent than the rest of us urchins.I remember Mr.Harmer who kept himself to himself but did what he could for his family.As I grow older with lots of good memories I realise more than ever just how evil some people are especially those who deprive a child of their future.

Replied: 16th Oct 2009 at 20:16

Posted by: Lee312 (5)

Hi all,
I know this post is very old but I came across it when looking about William Harmers death, he would have been my uncle but I don’t have much info since my mum (his sister) passed away could anyone provide any info on the Harmers please? I only remember my grandma (Margaret) as my grandad Sammy died when I was quite young. I would like to know more about the family as I don’t have any contact with any of the other brothers & sisters.
Many thanks for any help.

Replied: 5th Aug 2021 at 22:17

Posted by: Pewfall (201) 

Lee, William Richard Harmer is buried at Gidlow cemetary. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/216718620/william-richard-harmer

it says he lived at Vere Street, According to this website location was near 59 york street, very close to miry lane.
Loads about your family on ancestry.com, folk have started a tree but you'll need to pay a subscription to see the documents.

Replied: 8th Aug 2021 at 16:33

Posted by: Lee312 (5)

Thanks Pewfall. I will have a look and I didn’t know he had a middle name!

Replied: 11th Aug 2021 at 10:53

Posted by: Lee312 (5)

Thanks Pewfall. I will have a look and I didn’t know he had a middle name!

Replied: 11th Aug 2021 at 11:48

Posted by: JAMB (66)

Smuel Harmer married Margaret Machell in Settle Yorkshire 1940 their children were
William Richard b Lunesdale Lancashire 1943
John E. b Lancaster 1947
Thomas b Wigan 1948
Jean b Wigan 1952
Shirley b Wigan 1954
Pauline b Wigan 1955
Samuel was born 1916 in Wigan the son of Edward Harmer b about 1883 and Margaret Rutter b about 1889

Replied: 12th Aug 2021 at 10:06

Posted by: Lee312 (5)

Thanks Jamb :t

Replied: 17th Aug 2021 at 11:46

Posted by: Lee312 (5)

.

Replied: 17th Aug 2021 at 11:46
Last edited by Lee312: 17th Aug 2021 at 12:05:35

 

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