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Question; the properties built Whelley "The Mount"

Started by: goldringers (6)

Would anyone have any historical information regarding the building of the properties up the top end of The Mount in Whelley
Albury Way,
Stanstead Close,
Alston Road,
Camberwell Cresent,
and finally
Ashbourne Avenue (before the bend at the top.)

I am trying to find out who owned or still owns parts of the land in and around the surrounding area's I have mentioned.
A friend recently told me that, when those houses were built in the early 70's all the land was originally owned and sold by a farmer who sold to developers but someone else I know has now cast doubt on that by saying the land was owned and sold by the coal-board so if anyone can shed light on that that would be brilliant.

Also, does anyone have information regarding a large underground culvert leading through from Kirkless Street over Cale Lane side and it might (not sure) travel down through the Mount estate then under and through any off the streets I mentioned above ?.

If anyone can shed any light on anything regarding land ownership, culverts who surveyed to show who and when the developers built the properties please let me know if you can.

You might even have documents to show or you remember the land and area as a child playing over the fields prior to building work been carried out in the 70's please let me know.
thanks for your time, much appreciated



Started: 16th Apr 2021 at 11:00

Posted by: lectriclegs (4384)

There is a culvert that runs under Tamworth drive, Wilton ave then under the new houses built on Wells drive it continues down to the old railway line.
I remember this from when I was young.
Gaffney built the first part of the estate,ie Wilton ave, Stroud close ,Ross Close, Wells drive, but would go no further as he deemed the land to be unsuitable.

Replied: 16th Apr 2021 at 14:16

Posted by: goldringers (6)

thanks for the reply

Replied: 17th Apr 2021 at 06:06

Posted by: cindy (5921) 

Did Cusanis The Butchers from New Springs not own any of the land.

Replied: 19th Apr 2021 at 12:18

Posted by: lectriclegs (4384)

Yes Cindy, I don't know how much of it though.

Replied: 19th Apr 2021 at 13:27

Posted by: goldringers (6)

Does anyone know about a "Parly Bore Boundary" or a "U.D. Boundary". this would have run parallel with Camberwell Cresent were it (Camberwell Ces) meets the top end of Ashbourne Ave. It then cuts right across Ashbourne Ave then heads for the main road "Wigan Rd.
I don't know what U.D. stands for either. On a map I have along the same boundary line as "Parly Bore Boundary" it says, "Wigan Boundary", again, anyone enlighten me?

If anyone knows what Parly bore is or what U.D. or what the Wigan Bounday means on my map (Is it a name or farm ?) means please reply, thanks once again

Replied: 23rd Apr 2021 at 13:48
Last edited by goldringers: 23rd Apr 2021 at 15:42:06

Posted by: cindy (5921) 

goldringers I would think U. D. is for Urban District, I know that the Boundary between Wigan & Aspull was about 100 yards after the bottom Chapel going towards Aspull.

Replied: 23rd Apr 2021 at 15:59

Posted by: lectriclegs (4384)

There used to be a chip shop here called the boundary chippy.

Half of it was in Wigan, half of it wasn't.

Replied: 23rd Apr 2021 at 17:30

Posted by: tonker (24059) 

It'll be Parly. Boro., which means Parliamentary Boundry and also Borough boundary. As already pointed out, by Cindy ^^^^, U.D. means Urban District, which is a council area.

The estate you mention is in both Wigan and Aspull.
The Aspull part is connected by Camberwell Crescent, I think, and is a newer build.
Also already stated, I can imagine the area being government land (N.C.B) as the government took over all privately held land which had coalmining activities going on, in 1947.

Replied: 23rd Apr 2021 at 20:19

Posted by: lectriclegs (4384)

But then again what would a Yicker know about Whelley?

Replied: 23rd Apr 2021 at 20:34

Posted by: tonker (24059) 

Highly likely, more than you.
But, then again, I haven't mentioned Whelley because it doesn't really exist. It's Wigan and Aspull.

Replied: 23rd Apr 2021 at 22:05

Posted by: lectriclegs (4384)

Having lived there from being born until I was 23 I doubt that very much.

And if it doesn't really exist, better get the council to take the signs down

Replied: 24th Apr 2021 at 09:35

Posted by: cindy (5921) 

lectriclegs I remember the chippy, My Mother used to work there, I think there was a toffee shop across the road, Also was this where the buses used to stop.

Replied: 24th Apr 2021 at 16:23

Posted by: lectriclegs (4384)

There was indeed a toffee shop across the road, Cindy,
The bus stop is still there.

Replied: 25th Apr 2021 at 10:52

Posted by: cindy (5921) 


lectriclegs I assume You lived in Aspull, Which school did You go to.

Replied: 25th Apr 2021 at 12:25

Posted by: lectriclegs (4384)

No Cindy I lived in Whelley (even though it doesn't exist)
On the mount
I went to primary school in Poolstock (it's a long story)

Replied: 25th Apr 2021 at 12:31

Posted by: cindy (5921) 



lectriclegs We lived in Top Lock & I went to St John the Baptist, We moved to Poolstock when I was about 11 So used to walk from Poolstock to St Johns come rain or sunshine. Happy Days



l

Replied: 25th Apr 2021 at 12:50

Posted by: lectriclegs (4384)

We may have passed each other travelling in opposite directions.

Replied: 25th Apr 2021 at 13:03

Posted by: cindy (5921) 

I was thinking that as well.

Replied: 25th Apr 2021 at 13:06

Posted by: tonker (24059) 

'Whelley' is a road in Wigan.
'Wigan Road' is the same road only in Aspull.

Lectriclegs lived in neither. Apparently.

'Top Lock' is a lock on the Leeds and Liverpool canal in Aspull.
No-one could possibly live in it, unless they lived on a boat and was stuck between the gates.

Similarly, 'Halfway House' is a pub in Pemberton.
The only people to live there is the landlord, his family and lodgers.

Replied: 25th Apr 2021 at 21:36

Posted by: lectriclegs (4384)

Whelley
Whelley is an area of northeast Wigan, Greater Manchester, England. Historically part of Lancashire, it is mainly a residential area, between New Springs and Scholes. In Whelley, there is Canon Sharples Church of England Primary School and Nursery, St Stephen's Church and a Labour club




Replied: 26th Apr 2021 at 17:32
Last edited by lectriclegs: 26th Apr 2021 at 17:39:44

Posted by: goldringers (6)

Does anyone know who originally owned all the land at the top of Ashbourne Ave. I have a map which shows Ashbourne coming to a full stop just after Tamworth. This is before the bungalows were built at the top some years later probably in a "phase 2" and a line on my old map shows a boundary cutting across Ashbourne that says I am told Parliamentary boundary and Urban District boundary with no properties after the line.
It was at this line all building stopped for a number of years till another phase of building started roughly 8-10 years after and Ashbourne carried on were the bend is and the bungalows are today, this carried on right up to Cale Lane.


I am trying to find out who originally owned all that land at the top of Ashbourne after the boundary lines on my map say phase 2 of building in the latter 70's early 80's. Was it privately owned ? say a farmer or land owner or the coal board ?.
I have contacted the coal board but there not getting back to me. If anyone can help please follow up on this thread, thanks again

Replied: 27th Apr 2021 at 07:22
Last edited by goldringers: 27th Apr 2021 at 07:25:07

Posted by: tonker (24059) 

Firstly, all land in the UK is 'owned' by the Crown.

The land on the Wigan side of the brook was built on. The other side of the brook was Aspull, a different place with a different council. It's possible that Aspull council wouldn't allow any building on their side of the brook.

Back to what I said ^upthere^, the government took over all coalmining activities in 1947, along with all the associated estate. It follows that it was likely to have been NCB land.

If you want to know who held the land in the years before the NCB took it over, have a look here.

Replied: 27th Apr 2021 at 19:57
Last edited by tonker: 27th Apr 2021 at 19:59:03

Posted by: JAMB (66)

Alston Road, Stanstead Close etc. built approx 1971/72 built by Kelly brothers ground rent now payable to a company by the name of G.T.Holdings.
From the bend round towards Cale Lane , known locally as The Barrats, built by Barrats as council housing I believe many of the tenants have since bought the houses at a reduced price from the council

Replied: 28th Apr 2021 at 07:51

Posted by: goldringers (6)

@tonker (quote)

"The land on the Wigan side of the brook was built on. The other side of the brook was Aspull, a different place with a different council. It's possible that Aspull council wouldn't allow any building on their side of the brook."

The brook you mention?, would this have originally run along the exact same old boundary line old Parliament / Urban District that use to split Wigan and Aspull so the brook itself was determining the boundary ?

Replied: 30th Apr 2021 at 07:43

Posted by: goldringers (6)

@tonker thanks for the help much appreciated for the heads up

(quote)

"The land on the Wigan side of the brook was built on. The other side of the brook was Aspull, a different place with a different council. It's possible that Aspull council wouldn't allow any building on their side of the brook."

The brook you mention?, would this have originally run along the exact same old boundary line old Parliament / Urban District that use to split Wigan and Aspull so the brook itself was determining the boundary ?

Replied: 30th Apr 2021 at 07:44

Posted by: tonker (24059) 

That's usually the case. The brook will be culverted as you suggested earlier.

Replied: 30th Apr 2021 at 18:12

Posted by: wigvet (3478)

The 'Mount' estate acquiring its name from the old house of the same name belonging to Cusani just set back past the Tesco - white wall plaque clearly visible as you go past

Replied: 4th May 2021 at 21:23

Posted by: upthetims (6577)




I lived in Windermere St, which was in Whelley,and in Wigan,Lancs.
lectriclegs is 100 per cent correct that Whelley was a district of Wigan.
Sam Tetsills butchers was in Scholes and then it was Whelley which stretched to boundary with New Springs

Replied: 14th May 2021 at 14:41

 

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