Message for Sledge

Started by: wiganyankeeron (inactive)

Hi,Sledge I presume you work for the Highways Dept of Wigan Metro? (Sorry if this topic doesn't come under the remit of your department, but the problem has been bugging me and others since the lights were changed over 12 months ago)
If you do? Can you explain to me and others. At the Beech Hill Avenue/ Woodhouse Drive traffic signals If you are coming from Marsh Green the lights are staggered to give you time to turn before the lights coming down Beech Hill Avenue turn to green. However there is no reciprocal stagger to allow traffic coming down Beech Hill Avenue to turn right, towards Standish Lower Ground, when the other lights, from Marsh Green, are on red. This at times causes tailbacks up Beech Hill Avenue of traffic trying to turn right. As the road about 20 yards back from the lights, is to narrow to allow traffic to pass on the inside. I have noticed that traffic are now running onto to the grass verge in order to get past, causing deep tyre tracks in the grass. Surely it wouldn't be to much trouble to stagger the lights so that when the lights coming from Marsh Green or on red the lights coming down Beech Hill Avenue stay on green for a about 20 seconds to allow the traffic to turn right, without you having to risk life and limb turning right when the lights have changed to red when you are stuck in the middle of the road.

Started: 15th Feb 2010 at 16:52
Last edited by wiganyankeeron: 15th Feb 2010 at 16:57:37

Posted by: ayrefield (4465)

It will be even worse there now as the road works have begun and traffic lights installed at Boars Head, and motorists will be going that way through Shevington to miss the tail backs on Wigan Lane and Wigan Road in and out of Standish.

Replied: 15th Feb 2010 at 17:45

Posted by: fireplace6899 (inactive)

He's on his holidays.

Replied: 15th Feb 2010 at 18:21

Posted by: a proud latics supporter (inactive)


Since the junction was altered the green filter light from Scot Lane on to Woodhouse Drive has been reversed, both Beech Hill Avenue and Scot Lane go on to green at the same time and at the end of the cycle, the traffic coming down Beech Hill Avenue stops and the filter arrow illuminates allowing traffic to turn right out of Scot Lane on to Woodhouse Lane, from what I have seen all though there is not a filter arrow for traffic turning right out of Beech Hill Avenue towards Standish Lower Ground, there is never that much traffic waiting there to turn right, so it does not back the traffic back up Beech Hill Avenue that often.

In my opinion that junction at the bottom of Beech Hill and the junction at the Stag at Orrell are actually a lot better since the junctions were altered

Replied: 15th Feb 2010 at 19:03

Posted by: wiganyankeeron (inactive)

Hi PLS. I live on the estate at the side of the lights and I can assue you at times I have had to wait for the lights to change 3 times before I was able to turn right towards Shevington. It seems there are a lot of other people who have got aggravated if you look at the tyre marks on the grass verge. If the traffic is heavy coming from Marsh Green there is only time for about 3 cars to be able to turn right, as they are already passed the Traffic Lights and are stopped in the middle of the road, Unless you go through on red.

Replied: 15th Feb 2010 at 19:20

Posted by: fireplace6899 (inactive)


Replied: 15th Feb 2010 at 19:28

Posted by: wiganyankeeron (inactive)


Replied: 18th Feb 2010 at 23:05

Posted by: danni (inactive)

you could always hold a protest blockade

Replied: 18th Feb 2010 at 23:12
Last edited by danni: 18th Feb 2010 at 23:12:19

Posted by: orrellite (2350)

turning right out of Gathurst Road to go West onto Orrell road is a nightmare ,it is almost impossible to see the oncoming traffic because of the Moor road right turn traffic.

I pointed this out to someone who appeared to be from the Highways Team taking photographs when it was completed but when I asked if he was from the Council the reply I got was that he might be. That was it.

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 07:45

Posted by: sledge (3085)

HHmmmmm, interesting comment but thousands of motorists use that junction every day and they dont seem to have any problem in seeing whats in front of them. Quite frankly any motorist who cannot make a sound judgement on if its safe to proceed or not at any junction should have his/her license taken away IMHO. Perhaps is just an age/loss of confidence thing. I know what its like to a degree, my Mum, bless her, she is 72 now and going the same way.

I cant show you any figures so you will have to take what I say at face value but since that junction was remodeled flow has increased and reported accidents have decreased..... a good result all round for those concerned Of course I doubt you or any of the other members of the "anti-highways lobby" in here will believe what I say and unfortunately I cant back it up here and now, but I challenge you and all the other cynics to disprove it....... with HARD FACTS of course

Anyway, this guy who might/might not have been one of us?
What exactly did you expect him to do as a result of you pointing out your issue? Put the junction back the way it was there and then just for your benefit? It would also be interesting to hear HIS version of events regarding this conversation before jumping to conclusions or passing any judgement about those concerned... would you not agree? Maybe he found your approach or manner distasteful or offensive, who knows? we only have your word and your version of events to go on.

To quote Monty Python........ "But Seriously" ....Havent you got more important things in life to be concerned about? Is logging on in here and having a pop at us the highlight of your day? Does the act of trying to drag us down give you some kind of kick or maybe make up for some thrill that your life lacks? Furthermore do you ever consider that not everyone might share your view and the numerous people who visit this forum but choose not to contribute might be thinking....." what a sad, selfish, miserable, individual this man is, he takes any chance to slag off the people whose job it is and who are working hard to make the roads safer and better for people like him"

I have got another 20 odd years to go before I clock off for good, I am hoping when the time does come I dont turn into a "serial whinger" like some in here appear to be.

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 09:19

Posted by: wiganyankeeron (inactive)

Why can't the council take more notice of the people who use these two junctions every day. They probably turn up, watch the traffic for a couple of hours and then base their plans on what they saw in that time.
As I said in a previous posting they only have to come to the Beech Hill lights to see that the grass verge has now become part of the road.

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 09:20

Posted by: sledge (3085)

At the risk of sounding sarcastic Ron what do you want exactly? We cant guarantee you an unhindered approach and a green light every time you use the junction particularly at busy times and with respect its unrealistic. The junction is designed to pass maximum volume and as such favours the priority route. Making it easier for you on your route would have a severe knock on effect on the other routes and make it say 4 or 5 times worse for everyone else leading to even more congestion in the area. Its a case of the common good I am afraid. Your route has the lowest demand and flow and therefore has to be given lowest priority.

Regarding the verge its been noted. You will probably see some measure intalled in the very near future. The Police are also aware, they are making regular passes and tell us they will drop on anyone they see riding the verge from a great height. Its down to the pack mentality, someone sees one person do it and decides to copy them.

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 09:56

Posted by: fatlad (209)

just read through this thread,cant help getting the vibes that you sound a bit touchy on this matter

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 10:08

Posted by: ©art© (6154)

I agree with you there Ron, That one & the Dorning St/Frog Lane one are the worst so-called automatic traffic lights around Wigan.
Coming down Beech Hill avenue & wanting to turn right to SLG. if there's more than four vehicles waiting to turn right,that queue blocks the straight thro'/left turn lane.
All that for the sake of a few yards less grass & a bit more tarmac, & so the build-up goes way back up Beech Hill Ave.
When you get a green light, traffic moves down waiting for a clear route to turn right.
Nothing then indicates that the up lane has a red light, once you're past the down lane signal, & so over cautious drivers don't seem to be able to make their minds up, to go or stay. Adding to the queue behind.
Dorning St/Frog Lane....Forget it, such a waste of time digging sensors into the road & expensive switchgear.
Sit on Dorning St & wait for none existant traffic to pass for a few minutes, then the lights may, if you're lucky ,be one of the three/four cars allowed through.
They should have sensors to weed out the brain dead & spoon fed in the Politburo*, who are doing their level best to ruin OUR town in every way they can..

*politburo?. That's the wedding cake on the corner of Mesnes Field. Recognised because of it's contents...Fruit & Nuts..

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 11:09

Posted by: gricer (1983)


Why do we have roundabouts where there should be traffic lights and traffic lights where there should be roundabouts?

A example being on Scot Lane where there is a mini roundabout at the bottom of Marsh Green and traffic lights at the junction of Challenge Way/Stadium Way.

Surely, it should be the other way round with a proper roundabout at Challenge Way/Stadium Way and traffic lights at the bottom of Marsh Green which apart from being a three way junction, also has the problem of some motorists driving straight across and not giving way in the direction of Newtown.

There is also the added problem of vehicles tuning right from the Phoenix Restaurant.

I await your reply with interest.

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 12:10

Posted by: sledge (3085)

Oh and ...and here they all come, the forum Daddies critics and experts, out of the woodwork hahaha.

I am a busy man so I will keep my comments simple...

Fatlad? No touchy at all mate I am always happy to accept constructive critisiscm. My only proviso is that those making it.
a) Have just a tiny bit of knowledge and understanding of the subject and make their comments in a fair and respectful way.

b) Are prepared to accept what I say without wanting to turn it into a full blown argument.

Unfortunately its yet to happen

A typical example of my above statement represented with some accuracy is F@art. A man who spent most his life Digging coal up out of the John pit. The ideal background and qualifications needed to start telling us how to do our job and reason enough for his ever continuing "fruit and nut" based joke. Keep at it old son, I am sure someone has yet to hear it I see your desire to join in the fight and dismiss all that you dont understand lives on as strongly as ever

We dont have roundabouts where there should be lights nor vive versa although changes are sometimes required as a result of improvements or alterations elsewhere. You just think we do on account, and I say this with respect, the fact you have no idea of criteria involved in making the choice. Each have their respective merits and disadvantages and there are many factors involved in the selection such as physical space and site limitations, planning and design requirements. Traffic conditions by which I mean average/peak flow and density rates, approach speeds, proposed future developments in the area, proximity to hazards and other road features, local accident patterns.....and the list goes on....Oh I forgot the most important one, also the one that most people seem to have a problem getting their heads round COST! or more specificaly cost in relation to benefit.

Lights and roundabouts deliver traffic in different ways, and you have to look not just at the junction but the whole system they will become part of. Allowing more or less traffic through a particular junction at a particular time may have no adverse effect at that location, but half a mile away at the next junction it might cause chaos. Lights cause pulses in flow which can be timed and controlled to fit in with pulses from other local sets which can be beneficial to the system as a whole in the way its controlled. Whereas roundabouts deliver traffic in a smoother but less controllable way making them more suitable for areas that are not subject to strict control or management....we dont just flip a coin!

Take Rons case, we could rephase beech Hill lights in his favour but it may well have a knock on effect elsewhere, say Challenge way or Springfield and lead to more congestion at those areas.

Now thats my answer, which you asked for and I sincerely hope you found it interesting and enlightening. Now we can go one of two can say, "thanks for the time and effort in giving it" or "your wrong, your a liar, you dont know what you are talking about, bunch of muppets" blahblahblah or words to that effect.....

so whats it gonna be? I am awaiting your reply with interest.

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 13:36

Posted by: orrellite (2350)

Sledge ,
rather than immediately going on the defensive all the time just take a moment to consider if the comments made might be constructive in what they say.
Trust me he was one of 'yours' as I said ,my approach was calm, pollite and intended to point out that which was an immediate shortcoming in many locals opinion.
I am not aware that anyone either on this forum or elsewhere has critised the improvement has made both to traffic and particularly with the controlled crossing points.
As one who holds qualification and practical experience in Highway construction,traffic management and the management of H&S I do speak with just a little knowledge sufficient to know that the greatest contribution to the measurement of safety is that which can be gained from near misses with no accident or damage .
Near misses occur on a daily basis on this aspect of the junctions design fact.

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 13:50

Posted by: wiganyankeeron (inactive)

Hi Sledge, I am NOT getting at you personally. As you work for the department concerned, you are a way of venting our frustrations. The same as if you go to the airport and your flight is cancelled. It's the girl behind the desk who gets all the Flak.
As you have said in your reply you know about the problem at Beech Hill Lights hence I feel my comments are justified. As Art correctly says, people turning right towards Shevington. Once they pass the lights at the bottom of Beech Hill Avenue have no way of knowing when the lights coming along Scot Lane have turned to red. Another cause of the tail backs.
I am glad that people's concerns as to the safety at these junctions are now on the Internet for posterity. As if/when, someone gets killed at these junctions the council can't say they weren't aware of any problems.
I am sure a 15 sec stagger on the lights on Beech Hill Avenue will not have the massive repercussions you say. If anything is causing a further hold up, It's the pedestrian crossings which are now in place. I've lived in the vicinity for 35 years and have never heard of anyone being knocked down crossing the road at this location. Invariably people press the button and cross before the green man shows. Hence all the traffic is stopped for no reason.

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 13:55

Posted by: gricer (1983)


Your reply to my observations about Scot Lane is only another example of the nonsense we get from council officials.

No constuctive answer of why there is a mini roundabout on a three way road junction with one side which does not stop some drivers giving way as the centre of the roundabout is not in alinement with the centre of Scot Lane. Mini roundabouts on three way junctions are dangerous.
No comment about customers having trouble to turn right out of the Phoenix Restaurant.

Like I have said previousley, 'I am right and memmbers of the public are always wrong' is your atitude.

By the way, do the Council know you are spending time during working hours, on this website discussing matters with council tax payers?

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 14:12

Posted by: sledge (3085)


Just for clarification, in our (and the Courts) book roads and junctions dont cause accidents, drivers and their lack of awareness and appreciation for the surrounding conditions do. In todays blame/claim society its even more imporatnt for us to be on the ball and the junctions in question meet all the relevent design requirements and standards laid down by the DfT. They are regularly inspected, the findings acted on and all records are retained.

Accident rates are closely and continuely monitored throughout the borough, your junctions handle large volumes and are not flagging up anything significant.

I am not going to identify it as it will provoke another `debate` but at this moment in time our #1 blackspot is a straight length of road with a 40 limit and is nowhere near a junction. Despite the amount of signage and other calming measures we have installed some drivers just refuse to appreciate the dangers, and therein lies my point. "Try as hard as we can, we cant always account for the idiot factor"

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 14:38

Posted by: orrellite (2350)

might I ask a question with regard to meeting standrds ?
Historically at traffic controlled junctions giving priority, the standard was to provide early cutoff rather than the late start which generally applies in certainly the Wigan area.
Has the standard and or recommendation changed in recent time?
this not a trick question but a real and genuine enquiry.

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 14:49

Posted by: sledge (3085)

....and Gricer chooses....option "B" ZZZzzzz why I am not surprised. PEOPLE OF WIGAN TAKE NOTE:::: I tried to be the nice guy and accomodate but was shot down in flames instead AGAIN!....eeehhhhh I dont know why I bother. Can I assume therefore its "Business as usual"??

BTW....Your ongoing tendancy to jump to conclusions and find petty issues to condemn me over continues to amaze. All comments I make in here are in my own time and come via my own equipment....prove otherwise Furthermore so long as I dont release sensitive info or name names my employers are not bothered who I argue with, what I argue over, or in which forum I choose to do it.

Open your eyes man, the overwhelming attitude in here is anti-council and always has been, no one in here supports us. Anyone who does is quickly despatched by the Daddies and anti-council lobby, much in the way you have been trying to do to me all week so what damage can I do???....You and your clique hated us long before I arrived on the scene and starting ruffling your feathers

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 14:57

Posted by: ©art© (6154)

" A man who spent most his life Digging coal up out of the John pit. The ideal background and qualifications needed to start telling us how to do our job and reason enough for his ever continuing "fruit and nut" based joke."
How wrong you are!!
From mining training as an underground FLP Electrician.
Plus an HGV Driver "A" licence
The biggest part of my working life was being an "Advanced Driving" trained Ambulanceman".Also qualified in advanced life saving techniques
Not some book learned inexperienced shiny arsed dyslexic, Sludge

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 15:04

Posted by: sledge (3085)

I am struggling to answer with any accuracy, truth is I am not really familiar with the actual nuts and bolts. Much of the system is controlled by the boffins at GMUTC and their contractors and they do pretty much whatever they see fit. If I had to hazzard a guess I would say the setup would provide whatever is required to give maximum throughput without compromising my answer would have to be "it depends". But I will take time to find out and get back to you next week when I am back in the orrifice

In the meantime you could try GMUTC themselves for an answer.

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 15:11

Posted by: ©art© (6154)

" I am back in the orrifice"

At last, now you've come out we know who & what you are..

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 15:15

Posted by: sledge (3085)

Ahhh HGV driver, so THATS where it comes from. Hand on heart I can honestly say I have never NEVER met one who thinks they can do my job better than me, you are not letting your side down

Any experience of highways/traffic management/engineering, urban planning, civil engineering, project management, budget control???

Dyslexic or not......I rest my case Sir

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 15:18

Posted by: ©art© (6154)

You mean you've read all those books?

I just base my knowledge on common sense & experience, plus extricating casualties from vehicles on badly designed traffic systems.

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 15:22

Posted by: orrellite (2350)

Thanks sledge I will look out for your reply,

incidentally I notice people management was missing from your list

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 15:28

Posted by: sledge (3085)

Accident investigator and forensic detective too eh? Well I am always will to learn from the experts so tell me, what exactly makes for a badly designed system??

Thinking back I dont ever recall the qualities you think give you the edge over us being prerequistes when I applied for and got the job Still, if you think its what matters thats up to you however far from the truth it may be.

Maybe because of my dyslexia I totaly misunderstood the application form eh? Come on Art lets do some more dys` jokes eh, you seem to like them.

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 15:34

Posted by: sledge (3085)

C-mon man Dyslexia jokes, lets hear them. Try for say...10. who knows you might hit me with one I have nt heard before and lest see who else laughs at them

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 15:37

Posted by: sledge (3085)

Neil Turner thought it was funny to, go and have word with him.

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 15:39

Posted by: sledge (3085)

Looks like that old miner has just dug himself into a new hole. Picking on peoples your age too tututut.

Wonder if incontinence is as funny as dys`?? Guess you will find out before me eh Art assuming of course you are not already there

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 15:50

Posted by: fireplace6899 (inactive)

One day Sledge you might talk some common sense.

I won't hold my breath.

Replied: 19th Feb 2010 at 17:44

Posted by: wiganyankeeron (inactive)

Hi Sledge, looks like we were correct in saying there is a problem at the Woodhouse Lane/ Beech Hill lights. A neighbour has spoken to someone in your Department and he has been told that, they know there is a problem, and it will rectified in the summer.

Replied: 28th Feb 2010 at 13:03

Posted by: hieronymous (1755)

Originally posted by Sledge:


"I am not going to identify it as it will provoke another `debate` but at this moment in time our #1 blackspot is a straight length of road with a 40 limit and is nowhere near a junction."

I assume by "blackspot" you mean accident blackspot.

If that's the case then I'd be interested to know, Mr. Sledge, the nature of the majority of accidents.

I'd also be interested to know if there are any pedestrian crossings on this "straight length of road" and what percentage of pedestrians use it/them.

And of those that do, how many use it/them correctly?

Replied: 1st Mar 2010 at 21:22

Posted by: sledge (3085)

"I am not going to identify it"

Pls refer to the above comment

Replied: 1st Mar 2010 at 21:45

Posted by: fireplace6899 (inactive)

another, no answer.

Replied: 1st Mar 2010 at 21:59

Posted by: sledge (3085)

Bongo, my simple minded friend. There are two reasons for the "no" answer.

1) Hieronymous, like you, has in the past cast despersions on me, my abilities and my employers so why should I return any favours?
2) The information in question is not, as yet, in the public domain.

......however as I am a easygoing type of person and despite the ambiguity of the question relating to percentages I am prepared to give some clues/pointers


Replied: 1st Mar 2010 at 22:08

Posted by: fireplace6899 (inactive)

more bull.

Replied: 1st Mar 2010 at 22:14

Posted by: sledge (3085)

Yes Bongo, all the info on the site is bull

Replied: 1st Mar 2010 at 22:18

Posted by: fireplace6899 (inactive)

only reported accidents.

Replied: 1st Mar 2010 at 22:30

Posted by: sledge (3085)

Welll......if they are not reported how else will we find out about them......BONEHEAD!

Replied: 1st Mar 2010 at 22:33

Posted by: fireplace6899 (inactive)

You have camera's.

Replied: 1st Mar 2010 at 22:37

Posted by: sledge (3085)

Bongo...we have 10 SPEED cameras in Wigan, thats approx 50% more than the number of functioning brain cells presently residing in your skull.

Replied: 1st Mar 2010 at 22:49

Posted by: fingers (inactive)

All complaints should be sent directly to David Molyneux - Environment and Regeneration Champion (and Deputy Leader of the Council), Wigan Town Hall, Wigan.

He is responsible for Economic Regeneration, Highways and Roads, Traffic and Transport, Bins, Street Lighting and Waste Management.

Replied: 2nd Mar 2010 at 08:53

Posted by: hieronymous (1755)

Mr. sledge,

This time it appears that you have the wrong end of the stick.

I did not ask you to identify the area in question nor, as you appear to suspect, am I trying to identify it by a process of elimination.

What would be the point? If I could identify it what would it change?

I would've thought that the point of my questions was reasonably obvious. If not then here's a clue:

Originally posted by sledge:

[QUOTE]1) Hieronymous, like you, has in the past cast despersions on me, my abilities and my employers so why should I return any favours?[/QUOTE]

Despersions?? I assume you mean aspersions.

As I recall you mentioned "....walking the corridors of power". A statement that smacks of an arrogance that is like a red rag to a bull for me. Please appreciate that there wouldn't be any "corridors of power" to walk if the Wigan public chose not to fund them.

As for casting aspersions on your abilities, I don't recall doing that. As I recall it was quite the reverse:

[QUOTE]Of course if you think you could do a better job than me........ and I am sure you will say
you could, but we both know in truth you wouldnt know where to start ..and thats what
really makes me laugh

As I said at the time, how do you know I wouldn't know where to start when you know nothing about me?

How's that for arrogance?

However, perhaps if you could bite your tongue - and I appreciate it may sometimes be difficult - and give (as you have sometimes attempted to do) a rational and reasoned explanation rather than attempting to deride and discredit certain posters I'm sure you will earn some respect from the majority.

Another point I'd like to make is that you claim that this board is anti-council and then proceed to condemn and criticise for that. Would it not be more constructive to, at least attempt, to find out why it appears so?

In addition you claim that the majority of people support the Council without (as far as I know) ever providing any evidence to support that assertion. This, despite the fact that you frequently demand it of others.

I hope you will take some time to digest this post and not react in a knee-jerk manner.

Replied: 2nd Mar 2010 at 15:46
Last edited by hieronymous: 2nd Mar 2010 at 15:48:12

Posted by: sledge (3085)

Sorry mate.....cant help you.

Replied: 2nd Mar 2010 at 18:50


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