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Vigilantes wanted....

Started by: billyj1 (51)

Thought that would get you looking! I promise I see myself as Joe Average - no massive hang ups, but in the last 6 months I've been beat up by a youth gang (see previous postings), and my car has been broken into twice. My relatives have had suffered events in the last 3 months. I've just seen a TV report where a Sunderland (I think) lady has started campaigning on behalf of 'normal good citizens' and I felt proud of her. Has anyone else felt seriously moved (as I now do) to act positively against these yobs and toe-rags??
Can't believe I'm typing this in! But I have never felt so strongly that I will NOT be a victim again and that I have rights.
Getting off my soap box now!

Started: 30th Aug 2006 at 21:20

Posted by: plum47 (898) 

sorry you got beat up billyj1,hope you get it sorted without violence.it must be terrible to live in a place where you and your belongings are not safe.

Replied: 30th Aug 2006 at 22:37

Posted by: empress (9667) 

I really feel for you, there are a lot of yobs on our streets now. I went to Bury Fair 2 years ago, the fuss I made afterwards ....well let me tell you why.
We were told by a fairground worker to get our kids away fast, so we started to go back to the car.A lad of about 14 approached us, asked if he could walk with us, said he was from Rochdale, he was shaking, I asked if someone was after him him, he said yes the cheetham Hill Lot.I told him not to run, I would put him in my car and drive him home.When my partner looked behind us the street was filling up with lads n girls aged from 14 to approx 20, all dressed in black, with roll necks collars pulled up over their faces and hoodies on.They completely filled the street and were at least a dozen deep.The kid ran , they started what I can only describe as a man hunt, I called the police, I was screaming as these kids ran past us that I was calling the police. No one else did a thing, no one reached for a fone apart from us.They were pushing knuckle dusters on some had baseball bats.A young girl pulled our kids into a shop doorway out of the way of this gang.
Not one police car turned up.I combed the area in my car looking for that kid, got home and rang hospitals it seemed he'd got away as no one was admitted.
I complained to the police, mayor, radio station and papers. This same gang does this every year they told me, theres cctv all down the street where it happened.The police got back to me and admitted they had no answers, but had made 4 arrests only, they had recordings of our calls, also a call from a fair worker , who broke off to tell us to get the kids away.Howver they had no excuses for why no one attended, and why a crowd dressed identical were allowed to congregate in a small area without question.
I haven't been to a fair since, to be honest I rarely go out after dark. Local shops have security on, gangs loiter outside, I've been spat at and am frequently told to f***off by teens , and thats in our own street.
I think its time somebody took some action, or directed us in the right way to putting and end to it.

Replied: 31st Aug 2006 at 10:56

Posted by: (inactive)

i have a different opinion (as always lol)
This country and we as a society are terrible with OUR kids.
I do not condone what happened in bury at all, but what i see happening in my own estate makes my skin crawl.
4 lads playing football....no harm if they play right....some one goes out shouting about their car, so the boys move!
a car is a car it can be fixed a child cant if a peadophile gets him cos he had to go on a feild far from home.the estate is full of signs saying 'dont play here'....its not right.

Teenagers gather in gangs they always have done always will do....but people scowl and tut when they walk past even before saying Hello...people should try it, its amazing i always do.
Teens are trying to fit in to what they think is their 'family' in todays world some parents dont have time for their kids...and im one of these as well..i try my best to make our time together special but we dont get a lot of it.
I know some are going to say 'well we had nowt growing up'...but they probably had bigger families so if their mum and dad was at work they could go to aunty ada's and she was kind.
Its not like that now my kids dont see their bigger family for months at a time, we dont all live on the same estate like they did when my parents were growing up,and we all work so we have to make time to see each other!

Kids have to be more self aware these days cos of the siko's that live around...my daughters are 6 & 7 and already ive taught them to punch a man where it hurts and if they do get grabbed pull the mans hair cos of the D.N.A.....extreme to some but i live next door to child sex offender!

The only way WE can ever hope to bring an end to such bad behaviour is to lead by example.

Replied: 31st Aug 2006 at 13:07

Posted by: harold (inactive)

They all need proper Dads there to many women just living with partners, there kids grow up on the streets because they dont get along with there mothers partner.

So it a cesspit of your own making and it getting deeper.

Replied: 31st Aug 2006 at 15:23

Posted by: billy (26053) 

the tradgedy of all this, is these scumbags have the law on their side. i am sure you have read countless incidents where an individual has taken action agains the alley rats, only to be dragged off to court themselves for assault-or infringement of their human rights???these low lifes know the law, and they know they are protected from the bad guys(you and me)

Replied: 31st Aug 2006 at 15:29

Posted by: harold (inactive)

Thats because of all the do gooding single parents who live with there partners as well.

Its some of them who get on these committees what come up with these laws.

Replied: 31st Aug 2006 at 16:16

Posted by: neverstill (533)

i wrote the above but it put me as inactive!!
I am married to my childrens father and have this point of view because of how i was dragged up, ive got the special ability of seeing this from both sides...i was in a gang and was in police station more than home, but like ive said before naughty kids like me back then were put into care.

Some parents just dont care what their kids are upto, others wont admit thier 'little angle' can do such bad things...some dont want to admit their kid is bad because people are too quick to judge instead of asking 'can i help?'

like i said above WE have to lead by example.
neverstill

Replied: 1st Sep 2006 at 06:33

Posted by: cab75 (96) 

Last week i caught a 13 year old walking up my neighbouring road jumping on cars and running over them, as i got to him he had just jumped off the the bonnet of a ladies Nissan Micra, right near my house, this was at 10 to 11 at night. I took him to the owner and she said the car was 16 years old and explained to him that she was single and could not afford a newer car, i was disgusted but she just took his name and address and said if there was any damage she would go to his Mother, i then found out he lives further up the same Avenue, his mates had all run away when i grabbed him but as i told him had it been my car he had jumped on god knows what i would have done. We don't need this mindless thuggery and even though i was born and bred in Platt Bridge the worst we used to get up to was knocking on doors and running off, i certainly would'nt have been walking the streets at 13 at 11 o clock at night.

Replied: 1st Sep 2006 at 09:39

Posted by: billy (26053) 

lead by example???you confuse me???i dont hang around in shadows awaiting an old age pensioner for her coppers.i dont wilfully vandalise property or burn down schools. i did my time in the services, came out got a job, and paid my dues. thats my example, now who"s going to follow?????hey you hooded cretons, are ya going to follow.???

Replied: 1st Sep 2006 at 10:00

Posted by: billy (26053) 

I AINT HOLDING MY BREATH.[v]

Replied: 1st Sep 2006 at 10:02

Posted by: cab75 (96) 

My other pet hate is smashed bus shelters and phone boxes, what do they get out of that?

Replied: 1st Sep 2006 at 10:40

Posted by: empress (9667) 

Oi Harold don't go knocking single parents. I was married for 16 years and ended up divorced through no fault of my own, I worked hard, bought a house and kept 2 kids stable and well adjusted. I don't need a man to raise my kids I can do it fine alone.Don't tar all single parents with the same brush I know folks who are married with a half dozen kids who have never worked a day in their life and who's kids behave like hooligans.
I now live with my partner, hes a proffessional, and have 3 step daughters at weekends.
As for your comment on proper dads, I was a forces wife, my ex was away for up to 6 months a year, fathers tend to be the bread winner , so mothers raise kids most of the time.

Replied: 1st Sep 2006 at 11:43

Posted by: empress (9667) 

Some days I hate men!

Replied: 1st Sep 2006 at 11:48

Posted by: harold (inactive)

[post removed]

Replied: 1st Sep 2006 at 11:51
Last edited by brian: 1st Sep 2006 at 12:29:59

Posted by: empress (9667) 

Race has nothing to do with it, nor does the marital status of the parents.
I have had trouble with teens in my street, they are white, most are from good families. These kids are bored, theres nothing for them to do, they want to hang out, meet girlfriends/boyfriends be normal kids. The only place they can do that it out on the street. I hate them yelling and screaming waking up my kids, I usually ask them to keep it down or move away.They are out in all weathers and till late.Thats the norm now.
They leave school and unless they achieve very high grades, they can't get into uni.Theres no such thing as an apprentice these days.So they are left to their own devices with nothing much to work towards.
These kids are are our next generation, its easy to blame their upbringing, and to get angry at them for being in our way.They need to learn respect for the police again and the law, but where are the beat bobbies?Need to learn respect for adults, the same ones who complain if they ride their bikes on a pavement by a main road?
Theres an area of rough land down the road from me where these kids hang out,its a tip down there, these kids put a few chairs in there, they are away from the houses, but the council move the chairs.Its probably council owned land so if the kids did clear it up and make something of it, I'm sure the council would go berserk in its usual petty way. Regulations and rules of the wrong kind are to blame.
No youth club unless people are risk assessed, buildings are risk assessed etc etc.
Its not just a parent problem its a communities problem.

Replied: 1st Sep 2006 at 12:08

Posted by: harold (inactive)

A lot of that might be true Empress but when they build them brand new youth clubs and play grounds they end up being burned down.

Replied: 1st Sep 2006 at 12:49

Posted by: empress (9667) 

So what do you suggest Harold?

Replied: 1st Sep 2006 at 13:48

Posted by: harold (inactive)

Well for starters I would ban imports of hooded jackets and make it an offence to wear golf caps.

That way you would be able to see these scum bags who are doing all the mischief and they wouldnt like that and would sone stop doing it.

Replied: 1st Sep 2006 at 14:44

Posted by: mollie m (6385) 

Excuse me Empress but there most certainly are apprenticeships these days for the right youngster who is willing to start at the bottom and claw their way up. We take on two electrical apprentices per year, put them through College and hopefully after taking examinations they become fully fledged electricians, and even then they can build on that to become approved electricians or technician electricians. It's no good bemoaning the state of things. As from January to May this year we'd had over 100 applications from youngsters keen and willing to learn a trade. True to say some of them just wanted a job without having to go to the "trouble" of going to College, just for the money, but it doesn't work that way. We ended up syphoning those applicants down to 10, all hopeful of getting a foot on the first rung of the ladder, but sadly we had to choose just two. It's heartbreaking for those that make the effort and don't get selected. Trouble with a lot of kids these days is they want all the designer gear, mobile phones, IPods etc etc but are too bl**dy lazy to get themselves off their backsides and start looking for a job BEFORE they leave school, because they're spoiled rotten. I had a lad ring us only this morning asking if we did apprenticeships to which I said - yes we do but you're too late. Off me soapbox now.

Replied: 1st Sep 2006 at 15:01

Posted by: empress (9667) 

I stand corrected Mollie, however if 100 applied for 2 places, maybe I should correct myself by sayin there aren't enough ?

Replied: 1st Sep 2006 at 16:17

Posted by: mollie m (6385) 

You could be right there Empress, but it is a sad indictment of this day and age the fact that there are too few youngster who make the grades in school and can pass a simple aptitude test. They have to be clever in the head and clever with their hands and understanding electrical and technical drawings etc requires a brighter than average young person. When we interviewed ours I chose the ones that the directors ultimately chose as well, mainly because these two came over intelligent, pleasant, the right kind of attitude and weren't cocky. Anyway, there are plenty of other jobs that don't require apprenticeships. In my day qualifications didn't matter. What was important was whether or not you could do the job. Not so today though because employers can pick out the cream so it's up to the kids themselves to want to do well for themselves.

Replied: 1st Sep 2006 at 16:37

Posted by: mandie (inactive)

hey harold when i go out during the day i wear my hooded top,, im not a yobbo though also i wear golf caps all the time

Replied: 1st Sep 2006 at 17:38

Posted by: reenie (180) 

my son and his family have been home for a week from bavaria on the thursday my 9yr; old grandson came to the shops with me which i might add are literally around the corner from me whilst in the butcher's which was my last stop my grandson asked could he make his own way back i (stupidly) said yes the next thing he was stopped by 2 boys (thugs) on pushbikes and they demanded money from him when he said he had none they hit him and rode away he was shocked more than anything and said nan your right it isn't safe in england anymore i was absolutely fuming but if i'd seen them i may have lost control and hit them and guess where i would have been locked up what a sad land we are living in

Replied: 2nd Sep 2006 at 16:12

Posted by: dark horse (295) 

bored kids? good families? Im sorry, but good families dont allow their kids to gang around. Me and my sister were never allowed to roam the streets or gang around. My kids were brought up the same and never once were allowed to gang around. There is no need for it. There is entertainment at home and at friends homes. I grew up on Norley Hall when there was absolutely nowt to do but we didnt use it as an excuse to cause bother or be vandals. Even on what was a rough and poor estate you would never have been allowed to get away with it. When I say poor, I dont mean there was no telly either. very few folks had tellys or cars etc. Poor meant having insufficient basics like food and clothes. I recall being asked to call at a little lads house on me way home from school to ask why he had been absent that day. His mam said to tell the teacher he had grown out his trousers and she couldnt afford another pair till his dad got paid. That doesnt happen today. It is down to lack of discipline and nowt else. I don't blame parents entirely, its society too. we is not allowed to touch kids or tell em off or owt. Even if you did, you'd probably find the kid hit you or you would get sued. When I grew up, neighbours watched each others kids - even if the grown ups didnt like each other they would never see a kid come to harm or gettin into trouble. as for riding bikes on pavements - there are special bike lanes all over these days. I am very deaf and manys a time Ive nearly bin mown down with bikes on the pavement.

Replied: 3rd Sep 2006 at 13:49

Posted by: billyj1 (51)

The good news about all these posts is I don't feel quite so alone with my feelings of anger!! Thanks to many of you for good old fashioned common sense comments. I think Mollie mentioned 'lack of respect' and that sums it up for me. There is no 'come back' when a toe-rag does something unacceptable - I'd be the first to admit I turn the other way because of the danger of saying something.
Heaven only knows what the answer is, but appropriate (harsh) punishment must figure in there somewhere...

Replied: 3rd Sep 2006 at 23:37

Posted by: empress (9667) 

Last night a neighbour called police on the kids who are congregating in gangs here, the teens had ripped off her doorbell, she approached them, got a lot of abuse, they later returned and threw eggs at her windows.Tonight the community bobby popped to see me , asked me what I had experienced.So I told them the lot, they hadn't realised just how bad the problem had got. When she arrived she commented on how peaceful it was at that time, 8pm. I said wait 30 minutes, as she left there were around 20 youths hanging about outside!Perfect timing, and that number grows as the evening drags on.She told me of the grants and improvents to the area, play area (for teens?) a new mosaic?(???) just something else to vandalise.
I spotted one of these kids sniffing gas, he was about 14 years old.If that was my son I'd lynch him,the parents are clueless as to whats going on.This community bobby was a nice lady, has been working hard at tackling the problem,but people don't report the abuse , harassment , and attacks on their property and cars. Unless its reported nothing will get done.
True to their word the police have been patrolling, it hasn't split these large groups of kids up, but at least the police can see there is a problem here.
My partner walked out only last week to our car, and there was a girl of 13 or so with trousers down urinating at the side of it.I'm sure her mother would be furious knowing she did that in full view of a grown man.We have CCTV camera pointing at the cars.......it doesn't work at making them behave.
All we seem to do is move the problem from one end of the street to the other and back again.
When we had the same roblem in Germany with forces kids, they made it regulatory that no more than 4 teens could hang out in the street together.They also enforced it with a fine to the parents.If I was fined for my kids behaviour, believe me I'd make sure they behaved!

Replied: 3rd Sep 2006 at 23:50

Posted by: gingerfreak33 (7) 

This problem with youths and perverts isnt isnt just an affliction that's attcking the north west. when I was posted to a unit in the south east i lived on side of my camp that was surrounded by the barracks perimeter fence. the kids ran around freely. however on the other side of the camp that wasn't fenced there were 8 attempts to snatch children. One took place in a school playground. Seven cars were broken into and lord knows how many houses. I'm now in north yorkshire and there have been at least two attempted snatches.

As for hooligans, I've seen all sorts, albanian teenagers in kent brandishing knifes at turkish kids over who can sell the most cocaine for the russian drug baron, to kids whizzing on speed battering the shite out of each other in quiet idyllic yorkshire villages.

I think that as a society as a whole we are rotten to our core. We can set up youth clubs or centres where teenagers can gather and have a place to go, but then like all teenagers they want more or sulk when then don't get what they want. they see gansters on tv and copy them in an effort to be 'cool'.

My ten year old suffered from bullying. He's a nice lad and got on well with everyone, he suffers from ADHD and can be a pain in the arse with it but that's just him. He had a mate who also had ADHD, well he did until this kid turned on him beat him up a few times. I don't just mean a slap, he and his mates blocked all the exits in the park my lad was in and then they played football with him. another occassion they got another friend of my lads to call for him. They waited around the corner, when he came round the corner they battered him. So after the police had threatened him with charges etec etc.

The simple fact is that kids have no respect for authority anymore because the authority can't do anything to them anymore. parents used to give kids slapped legs when they were naughty , some put the fear of god up them, but you'd find that those kids toe the party line because of fear. i'm not saying slapping is a good thing at all. There are other ways of disciplining the kids but if they have the slightest idea that you will give them a good hiding if they disrepsect teachers, police etc they won't do it. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire and some of these teenagers will only learn when they do get a good hiding or a sore ear from the back of a hand.

Replied: 5th Sep 2006 at 01:26

Posted by: maz12 (294)

Just a thought.
We are told that corporal punishment, smacking children, shouting too loudly is abuse! and that all of the above dont work. as it just makes children more violent. So in the past 20 years or so we have become brainwashed into beleiving that all this must stop and slowly but surly we have all but stopped punishing children,and yet i feel that a lot of kids today are more aggresive more violent and totally disrespectful, as they really do have nothing to fear

Replied: 5th Sep 2006 at 19:15

Posted by: mollie m (6385) 

There's nowt wrong with a slap. I got plenty enough of 'em when I was a kid and I am a normal,well-adjusted person and have never committed any violence on anyone or any animal in my life. If we did summat wrong or were disrespectful to our elders we got a crack. Even the bobbies used to give kids a slap if they deserved it. There's a difference between a slap on the legs or arms from a battering though. A young woman I work with gives her kids a clout if they're out of order but you have to be able to exercise control of your temper first. I do not in any way condone violence or abuse on humans or animals.

Replied: 5th Sep 2006 at 22:00

Posted by: maz12 (294)

I think even today in this gone soft world you still get children who get physically abused no matter what. PHYSICALL ABUSE IS TOTALLY WRONG.But i feel we have no punishments that frighten the kids. look how many youngsters are going to prison for assault, there lives spiriling out of control spitting, swearing, answering back.Risk taking i.e Drugs teenage pregnancies. WHY. Kids will always push bounderies, but these days nobody is allowed to say NO to them. Because of there HUMAN RIGHTS.

Replied: 6th Sep 2006 at 10:20

Posted by: billy (26053) 

when the know alls got in on the act, thats when the s**t hit the fan. we couldnt do a thing about the violence and abuse thrown at us by the sewer mentality of our dear little darlings.we are now victims of a culture that says it knows best(wheres the evidence)they can terrorise a whole community, and not a cop to be seen or found, slap one, and hey presto, theres a fleet of cars and a terrorist squad banging down your door.

Replied: 6th Sep 2006 at 13:42

Posted by: billy (26053) 

david cammeron has got in on the act now????he reckons we should try and be sympathetic to there problem, and give them a hug!!!!!
PS keep your legs crossed and your wallet in a very safe place davy boy.

Replied: 6th Sep 2006 at 13:45

Posted by: neverstill (533)

why do people keep going on about 'giving them a clip round ear' or drag them home?
In ten years time when my kids are out, if ANYONE dragged my child home or give them 'a clip' id go mad....i was brought up getting absolutly battered if i did anything wrong and it mad me worse...the only good thing about it is i hardened so when i did go into care i was 'cock' of the place cos anyone could punch me i didn't even sway!!
If my kids did cause problems in the future i would want them to come and tell me, or a letter thru door...NO ONE has the right to touch my kids any way or form. i live in plattbridge i have lived in marshgreen/worsley hall and hindley...and i have had problems with teenagers, but you know i went out and spoke to them didnt moan and groan...just spoke and every time its worked.
Im 30 and when i was 8 i phoned the police because my mum broke my nose it was still bleeding when the police arrived...i was told it was a domestic matter and couldnt get involved!! then i got another good hiding because i brought the police to her door....that is NOT a way to bring a child up no matter how bad they have been.
Thankfully times have changed due to the child protection act of 1989, but they have taken it too far, even when i was a 'bad un' i knew the police couldnt do owt cos i was under 16...im not saying they should all be locked up cos i learnt more crimes in care than id like to mention, so it can make you worse.....somethin needs to be put in place where gangs need to see the affects of what they do wrong, or the robber having to get work and go to the victims house every week with a percentage of their wage to give them.
Violence should be stopped in ALL cases, and i do include youths as well....the biggest problem we have is the law saying we are not crimminally responsible until we are 12, my daughters are 6 and 7 and KNOW the basic rights and wrongs, but if my daughter went and smacked another 7 year old with a brick, they couldnt do owt because they under age, and if i was a mum that didnt care that child would get away it!!
thats what needs sorting, children need to be made accountable for they do.

Replied: 6th Sep 2006 at 16:33

Posted by: billyj1 (51)

I picked my youngster up from the youth disco last night - I go in the car after being mugged previously when on foot - and a group of about 8 young 'chavs' just stood and blocked the exit whilst the 'moshers', who numbered about 200, had to squeeze past them. The idea seemed to be that they would start trouble with anyone who bumped into them. My son reckons the chavs can't be challenged by the authorities because they just stand there, but they will follow single moshers down the quieter streets and then pounce. The atmosphere was (for me) genuinely frightening. My son was surprisingly relaxed about it all - "it happens every week". I find it all very depressing.

Replied: 8th Sep 2006 at 10:04

Posted by: billy (26053) 

rights for your kids neverstill???if they hang around late at night doing what all useless members of the youth society do I.E attack without any provocation lone individuals going about there lawful business, then i would ask...what about the rights of the victims.scum bag parents are only a reflection of there d*g c**p brats.question, what respectable parent allows there kids to be roaming the streets late at night???

Replied: 8th Sep 2006 at 10:17

Posted by: dark horse (295) 

Neverstill you have gone the other way because you were not brought up with loving discipline. You were abused. No parent has the right to break a child's nose and the police today would not let them get away with it, thank goodness. I would not slap anyones child but if I should have the right to frogmarch em to their parent and expect that parent to administer a slap if it was serious enough to warrant it. All the poeple on here talking about corporal punishment appear to me to have been brought up with it as a reasonable tool to instill discipline. Mild 'fear' draws good boundaries. A short sharp smack AFTER being told what it is for and why it needs to be done teaches right from wrong as well as respect for others and establishes boundaries. Any parent who wades in smacking or hitting without a discussion with the child first is out of control and therefore only venting their own temper. My kids are 29 and 24. I always used to explain my position first, get their version of events and make a decision as to what punishment might be better, with a smack as a last resort. Only exception to the rule was if they was aving a tantrum, in which case a bit of a smack on the hand or leg usually brought them back to earth. The discussion then took place. They detested the 'discussions' more than anything and these formed the biggest type of discipline. These days, children are expected to know what discipline means without having first been taught it. They are not taught manners or anything. Manys the time I have been shoved aside by some child dashing here or there or teens walking straight in front of you without pausing to let you past and rarely do you get a pardon or sorry, or could I please pass you. I sometimes refuse to move and ask for the magic 'password'. Parents with these kids look at me and think I am barmy. My kids were brought up with good manners and as adults I have seen from a distance when they have used them - give a seat up for an older person, help a pregnant lady with her shopping, and said please, thank you and excuse me to folk. I may not have been parent of the year, and neither of my kids went to Uni or earn a bomb, but I like to think they are decent as people, so I don't think I did the worst job in the world.

Replied: 9th Sep 2006 at 17:47

 

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