Traffic light's

The highways dept in wigan has a lot to answer for with the traffic lights at the Beech hill/Woodhouse drive junction, evry morning and teatime its absolutely solid, the que stretches from wigan to the light's, from Cherry gardens to the lights and from shevington to the light's, the filter coming from shevington turning into Scott lane allows about five vehicles through,
Coming down Beech hill there is no filter light or even a traffic light facing you when you are waiting in the middle of the road, the first thing you know about the lights changing is when all the vehicles start heading towards you,
The light's from Scott lane allow much more traffic through than all the rest

It's a shocker there, isn't it? I use that same road going to and from work. I go over Martland Mill, over the cross-roads and head up Beech Hill. At night coming home, I come out at Springfield Road, if somebody is kind enough to let us out. A very bad set-up altogether.

What do you suggest they do about it then??
The problem is not the phasing, nor is it the Highways Dept..... its down to the volumme of traffic passing through them and that in turn is down to US. HHmmmmm...Maybe they could compulsary-purchase the land surrounding the junction and enlarge it but I sure that would raise just as many complaints and be deemed a terrible waste of taxpayers money.

they should try opening some extra routes up

Like you Dave, I do a lot of travelling around the UK. Wigan has some of the worst roads in all of the UK. Last year, our Chief Executive was after opening an office in the North West and at a meeting I asked him to consider Wigan and he agreed to come and take a look. I met him in Ashton and we drove to Wigan and it took over an hour at rush hour and it put him right off. We ended up opening an office in Warrington and so a few jobs for Wigan people were lost because of the road system.

sledge, I suggest the idiot who set up the timing on the lights to come back and re set the damn things, if you would have read my post correctly instead of diving in head first with your sarcastic reply, you would see that I said the filter lights coming down beech hill towards scott lane are non existant, the filter lights coming from shevington way only allow about five vehicles through, which means that all the vehicles that want to go straight on have to wait for ages while the long line of vehicles turn right,
Before they altered the lights we never had this problem, but it's obvious that the plonker who set the timings on the lights doesn't have to live nearby and put up with them everyday, I do, mind you, trying to get anything done by the council is like banging your head against the wall

Your right franny, I drive the truck to Glasgow five night's a week, and the roads aren't half as bad as what they are in wigan

Dave, I've been in the queue there coming down Beech Hill Avenue and the lights have only allowed three vehicles through before the lights change, causing a tailback right up the road. I've looked in my mirror on many occasions and traffic behind me is horrendous.

I've even tried going home from work via Woodhouse Lane, and it's just as bad. The main route is Beech Hill Lane, over to Martland Mill, but that route is scuppered. It's just a nightmare whichever way you go, because the lights aren't set properly. They need to be re-set to allow at least 10 vehicles to flow from Beech Hill Avenue/Martland Mill and Woodhouse Lane/Standish Lower Ground. I'm happy to sit and wait my turn.

Your right mollie, it's probably the worst set up junction in Wigan,

No different then any other junction!

I go through that junction several times a day normally and have done so for many years now and here is my two penneth on the subject.

Sledge is basically right the problem is because at busy times the sheer volume of traffic is the cause of the delays, made worse lately by road works in other parts of Wigan, pushing the traffic over to that side of Wigan, the road works in Poolstock Lane push the traffic on to Warrington Road at Goose Green, which in turn gets jammed up and pushes the traffic up through Highfield Grange Avenue and Little Lane and through the estates ending up on Scot Lane, with traffic trying to enter Wigan from the Woodhouse Lane side of Wigan.

However sledge, to blame “us” is pathetic and the sort of thing a pillock who works for the Council would say, in fact it is the sort of reply an employee of the Highways Department would come out with, saying that the traffic chaos in Wigan is the publics fault for driving a car, how are we supposed to get to work! public transport I hear you say, I say “what public transport”???? there are no buses or trains which go anywhere near to where I work.

A few months ago the traffic lights where rephased at the junction of Scot Lane, Beech Hill Avenue and Woodhouse Lane, the differences being that the filter arrow for traffic turning right into Woodhouse Lane from Scot Lane and turning right from Woodhouse Drive (Standish Lower Ground side) into Scot Lane are activated at the end of the traffic flow phase, rather than at the beginning of the traffic flow phase and this allows more traffic to flow out of Beech Hill Lane and when the filter arrow for turning right into Woodhouse Lane is activated a filter arrow is activated which allows traffic to flow into Scot Lane from Woodhouse Lane and in my opinion for what it is worth, the traffic flow is much better since the lights were rephrased, with more traffic flowing out of Beech Hill Avenue and Woodhouse Lane.

Now back to what sledge said, I think that what we need is a Council Highways Department, which does not blame “us” for traffic jams, but gets "us" some new roads built in Wigan, other Towns in the country get their roads and bypasses etc built, but here in Wigan we don’t get any new roads do we, in the last week the Council has announced “another” shelved road project, that being the Westwood Park link road, which has been shelved and this adds to the list of other “shelved” road projects in Wigan.

Such has

Route 225 - M6/M58 Orrell to M61 Westhoughton link road.

Wigan Inner Ring Road - New Market Street to Saddle.
Junction extension.

A5225 The Wigan Gateway - M6/M58 Orrell to Atherton.

Westwood Park Link Road – Goose Green into Westwood Park.

And other roads from the past which were never completed.

The Northern M6 link road from Woodhouse Lane to the M6 junction at Shevington, Woodhouse Drive would have been the start of that road if it had been built and there would have been no problem with traffic at the bottom of Beech Hill now, if that road had been built.

The Southern M6 link from the M6 into Wigan, why did construction of the duel carriageway end at Goose Green, the answer is because there used to be a railway bridge there, so why were the railway bridges at Goose Green, Newtown (skew bridge) and Newtown (seven stars) not widened to accomodate the duel carriageway, the answer was to save money, well that saved money in the 1960’s has caused 40 years of motoring misery for “us” Wigner’s.

And finally the Saddle Junction Gyratory System has {{{NOT}}} worked, because the original problem still exists and that is that the traffic goes down to a single carriageway as it travels under the seven stars railway bridge “AND” because the traffic lights at the B&Q junction, which were added after the junction was built, basically screw everything up at the Saddle Junction.

So well done for Wigan Council Highways Department for some 50 years of screwing up Wigan’s roads and what is the long term goal for Wigan’s Highways Department, is it to create “total traffic gridlock” with flashing warning signs saying it is “your own fault for driving a car”!!!!

It makes me wonder if the people in the Highways Department who think up these wonderful road projects are actually “stealing” a living, because they know that none of these projects will go ahead, I say this because every so often a new road project is announced which gets everyone’s hopes up, except the “butterfly” brigade who don’t want any roads to be built anywhere, (nimbys etc) and then after a few years the said road project is “shelved” and then they have to think up another road project up to justify their £80000 a year job, so that they don’t get reviewed (sacked) well I think that the lot of them should be reviewed (sacked) now and replaced with people who know what they are doing and can get road projects planned, funded and built, instead of them always being {shelved}

When the Beech hill junction was designed and built it was deemed adequate, now like many in the borough its not. Ask yourself a question.....whats changed?.....hhmmm. Looks like it might be a toughie for some....PS Go through it at peak times during the school holidays and marvel at the difference, what might that tell you?

Road and traffic use increases year on year FACT..My question still stands and is open to anyone. What do you suggest IS done about the junction that will please everyone?......realistic answers only please. Not ones that merely move congestion from one road or area to another or open up a can of worms for someone else. More importantly dont assume there is a limitless amount of funding available to carry it out or that the planning engineers and various depts involved dont have other things to do or a massive backlog due to reduced funding. Increasing road tax, fuel duty, income and council tax would bring in more cash and be a viable option I suppose......anyone for that???

Hey I know what would help.......Pull down the JJB, Martland Mill, Robin park B&Q and Asda and turn the land into a by-pass with 3 or 4 other major junctions that encourage more traffic and that would in few years also clog-up. OK thousands would loose their jobs and millions would be lost from council income and the towns economy, many would suffer in one way or another but at least you would get through the lights quicker.....

I will give you a clue, if its that important to you put it in a letter to the Highways dept or your MP. Moaning in here will get you nowhere.....only laughed at.

BTW...The reason the majority of the above mentioned road projects were shelved was down to decisions made by Central Government who were to have funded them......Not Wigan MBC, who incidently pushed for them all they way and, although it might come as surprise to some......are still fighting for them and trying to secure funding.

who"s the pratt who designated lights coming off tesco at hindley stores???it can be a bloody nightmare there at times. today at 12.30, it took 9 mins to clear the car park. dont go near this store if ya M-O-T is due, it will run out afore ya get off the lott.

Tesco lights in Hindley very bad Billy, lost count of the times i've nearly been shunted or side swiped there.

Sledge said;

"...if its that important to you put it in a letter to the Highways dept or your MP."

Do you know who used to be Chairman of Highways and Works when he was a mere councillor ?

Yes our MP Neil Turner and if you expect support from him think again.

exccelent snoopers, but fail badly in the inteligence department.
but hey...dont they have salaries to die for, not to mention pensions.

Hmmm no answers to my question yet, just the same old narrow minded, one sided opinions

are you on commission for highways sledge?

Maybe one or two in here should sign up danni. They would appear to be the ones with all the answers

you a snoop sledge???

Are you a traffic or planning enginner Billy?

noop...but i reckon ive missed my way.

Sledge, I wonder if the decision by central government not to fund was in anyway hampered by the fact that the council have spent thousands putting stupid statues up around the borough, the money for which could have gone on some road projects. The Government will expect the council to put in some expenditure and not simply rely on a government handout hence the fact that part of my rather expensive council tax goes on roads. This council is the probably the only one in the country who can build a multimillion shopping complex which is bound to increase traffic yet do nothing about the roads into the town except make large areas one way systems. The result is mayhem. Oh, and dont get me on the same roads that flood year on year and have sticking plaster repairs made.It is simple incompetence and poor planning. As for Neil Turner, maybe some of his £175k living expenses could pay for a few workmen to repair the flooding on Bolton Road.

The problem is simple Franny....money and the fact there is not enough to keep everyone in the Borough sweet and give them what they want. Different depts get different budgets, how its spent is up to various heads and if leisure want to spend their money on statues its up to them. The actual cost of them was a tiny fraction of a percentage of their budget with some costs coming from lottery funding and just because you dont like them does it mean everyone in the borough doesnt like them.....what would you have liked to have seen instead and why??
Unfortunately workers want higher wages, material costs and overheads increase, yet no-one wants more to pay tax to fund it all.....well the cash has to come from somewhere and if its not there cutbacks have to made elsewhere. Its how the MBC works and how the cookie crumbles.

If you dont agree with it or have any complaints on how funds are allocated they should be addressed to Peter Smith or your local councilor.....not me.

noop...but i reckon ive missed my way.

No you havent.....believe me.

Oh, and dont get me on the same roads that flood year on year and have sticking plaster repairs made.It is simple incompetence and poor planning.

Agreed.....but is it the fault of the MBC, or is it Utd-Utes, private land owners, sub contract road workers, BT, cowboy builders or any one of many many other possibilities?.....truth is you dont know do you? You are just pointing the finger and making an assumption that every problem related to the roads is the fault and responsibility of the MBC........ Its not, and this is why I struggle to take your comments seriously.

Let me ask you a question, why should the MBC spend its Highways budget and YOUR money putting right the shortfalls of other organisations......there WOULD be an outcry in here if that happened wouldnt there?

"Different depts get different budgets, how its spent is up to various heads and if leisure want to spend their money on statues its up to them. The actual cost of them was a tiny fraction of a percentage of their budget with some costs coming from lottery funding and just because you dont like them does it mean everyone in the borough doesnt like them.....what would you have liked to have seen instead and why??"

Well sledge you have hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately it is up to them and that is why the word democracy does not count anymore. If you asked the majority of Wiganers what they would prefer, statues or appropriate roads what do you think they would choose?The problem with the council is that there is no co-ordination between different departments and it is a case of, "This is my budget and I will spend it how I like." I wonder what would have happened if Leisure and Transport actually spoke to each other or even better Transport and Building. A cohesive and appropriate approach may be catalysed. What is the point of a major shopping town with no roads to deal with the increased traffic that brings. The 5 P's spring to mind; Poor Preparation leads to P*** Poor Performance.

As for flooded roads, Bolton Road has flooded year on year and every year the same thing happens. A group of blokes come down, spend hours clearing the water only for the problem to occur again a couple of days later. Last year the blokes pumped the water into neighbouring fields and as the fields are actually higher than the road and on a slant, the water simply came back within hours. Mind you it made a lovely waterfall although damaged over ten cars. This is poor planning, poor problem solving and nothing else. Simple incompetence.

"If you dont agree with it or have any complaints on how funds are allocated they should be addressed to Peter Smith or your local councilor.....not me."

Thought this site was about debate? I am simply pointing out that Wigan has some of the worse roads in the UK, the council has a lot to answer for which you appear to disagree with. Fair enough. A major problem as I say is that Wigan has turned into a major shopping town, a major sporting town with premiership football and yet the council have not seen fit to improve the roadwork system to cater for the increased needs not to mention the increase in traffic because of poor public travel. That in my view is poor planning and preparation and nothing else.

sledge...let me repeat myself..ive missed my way, if it was only for the pension they get.

Franny...... Land in the center and money to build more roads is not available PERIOD, STOP, FINISH, THE END. I want to retire and move to Marbella but the money is not available PERIOD, STOP, FINISH THE END. See my point?? Money makes the world go round and if you dont have it you cant always do and have what you want, its tough but its real life. If you dont like traffic take the bus, if you were to loose your driving license and were despearte enough to travel you would have no choice so dont tell me its impractical....and as for the cost to the MBC of the "statues", it wouldnt cover the cost of a few new streetlights for your new roads.

The MBC is there to serve YOU and If you are not happy with the way the MBC operates do something about it and TELL THEM, even if it doesnt improve your situation it might improve someone elses, but at the same time you have to consider that they dont have magic wands and unversal-solve-all-problems-in-a-flash-spell-books, they dont have responsibilities for all the boroughs problems, nor do they have unlimited funds nor can they do everything at once. What an ideal world that would be eh, or do you think we already live in one?

I cant speak for the whole of the MBC and everything that goes on, nor am I going to defend every decision they make. My point is that those that complain the most are ALWAYS the ones who have the least understanding and appreciation for the way they HAVE to operate.They think that because they pay council tax they are entitled to live in Utopia and have everything on a silver plate, all you are doing is reinforcing my belief in this. If you are not happy do something about it, otherwise sit there moan and suffer......I really dont care I will just sit here laughing.

If you asked the majority of Wiganers what they would prefer, statues or appropriate roads what do you think they would choose?

Depends....what answer do you want?, I could ask 100 motorists then ask 100 art lovers. The public often dont know themselves what they want nor do they realise what is often the best for them, the public elect councils and give them the power to make decsions on their behalf. Perhaps you dont realise it but its the reason they exsist and its been like this since the middle ages.

You will just sit there laughing? Sledge, tha dont seem reet to me. The fact is this, if I want to buy a new TV but suddenly I have a large gas bill come in, the TV will have to wait. So ever thought that the reason why money is not available for new roads is because it is poor adherence to budget? What is the point of building a large shopping centre when people cannot get there or the public transport is poor? It is called preparing for the inevitable,and the council do it very poorly. Oh, and believe me I have told them. Before the shopping centre was built a due dilligence report would have to be completed. I would love to read that report because the author must have made mention of the road network not being appropriate. Whether the statues are low cost compared to new roads is not the issue. They are a waste of money when we need money to put the basics in place. Oh, and guess what. The artists who completed the statues were not local artists but from outside the borough. Call me Mr Picky, I would have preferred some form of referendum before purchasing items such as statues. Even if the money did not go on roads, there are numerous worthy projects that money could go to. If you want a good cross section of Wiganers and ask them what they would prefer, statues or a better road structure, why not ask on here?
As for the public voting for councils, yup I know that. Roll on the election with the lot who are in at the moment.

its fact wigan as more lights than all the major city's in england

C-mon Franny, at least TRY and get some facts right and point you critique in the right direction

The standard of public transport in Wigan is very much open to interpretation, does everyone think its poor or is it just you? and once again I will ask you.....if it is so poor why is it the fault of the MBC? Unless I have missed something they dont own or manage or run the bus companies, I always believed public transport in our fair town was regulated by GMPTE. If as I suspect you are over a certain age bus use is free for you and if so you should have even less to moan about because you are not paying for it. If so it proves the point I made earlier that some people are never satisfied. Perhaps the real issue is down to the fact the nearest stop is more than 10 yrds from your house and that they dont run every 2.75 minutes...am I warm?

Another point, dont think MBC paid for and owns the Grande Arcade? They didnt and they dont. Between you and me it was making money for us before they dug the first hole and is now generating more income than originaly forecast. Its encouraged some big names which wouldnt otherwise have been interested and its helping us to loose our dowdy,negative, Northern mill/pit town cloth-cap, pigeon, whippet etc etc image that outsiders laugh at and holds us back when it comes to new business investment....... and that I suspect you might want to cling onto until your last breath. They in turn are attracting consumers and putting money into the local economy and providing much needed employment. Might sound like hype and spin I know but take your blinkers off and you will see I cant be far from the truth, its going to be difficult for you but consider how important this is to any small town in this day and age.......outside investment, jobs and money or 10 minutes stuck in traffic at peak times? hhhmmmmm is that another toughie for you eh?

So you would have prefered a referendum on the statues eh? and increase the cost by a factor of perhaps 5 with no guarantee of the project even going ahead and waste even more of the leisure budget money....HELLOOOOOO, isnt that hypocrisy? You really seem to be struggling with the concept that things cost money and the fact that money does not grow on trees. Dont forget that the Lottery commision stumped up some cash and there were certain conditions involved....so some hands were tied.
So we should have had a referendum eh? Fair enough, why not stop ranting, do something positive and TELL THEM, not me and next time they might consider it....bet you dont though

I wouldnt ask any opinions in here, there is an underlying factor and a mindset that tells me I would not get a truly representative answer so its a pointless excersise. Oh hang on, I see what you did there, you tried to get me to look daft... nahnahnah, and NO I am not going to say what it is, work it out yourself......Can I get back to my laughing now?

middle name hammer by any chance?

Wigan MBC have been fair game in here danni since the day I first logged on, just lately planning and highways seem to have been singled out for special attention from the self righteous....its about time someone started sticking up for them.

tbh I think you have some valid points. However, it does seem thats lots of things are being shelved again after massive press coverage promising all sorts. i.e the Westwood Link Road, Joint Service Centre, etc.

For your information, Traffic light control has has nothing to do with the Highways Department. It is Traffic Management,and the Engineer is Ian Lovall

Sledge. I guarantee you that if you go to any psychi unit, they wont even let you go home for yer pyjamas matey.The standard of transport is open to interpretation? No, the fact is it is nowehere near having the desired effect of reducing in any significant amount the traffic going into Wigan.Oh and as or me being a significant age, nope I am 44 ye cheeky sod so dont get a free bus pass!. However, whether someone is paying for it or not does not mean it should be a shoddy unhygenic service.
A referendum on services? Why not? It does not have to be a postal vote and by the way, maybe if it was Wigan Council could send the postal vote out with the host of other crap that comes through my door from the council such as the Council Magazine telling me how wonderful the council is. Or maybe they could be delivered by the people who shove leaflets through my door advertising kebabs and pizzas which the council allow to run fast food outlets without a sniff of appropriate planning permission or thoughts about increased litter from fast food outlets. Our town is fast turning into a fast food empire. Oh, and money does grow on trees, it is paper and paper comes from trees me thinks. So do fast food leaflets
And you think people on here are not intelligent enough on here to have reasoned debate. I aint trying to make you look daft sledge. It is all about opinion, you have yours and I have mine and that is fine. I love a good debate. I do think however you need to smell the coffee and can only assume you work for the council due to the passion of your argument. Oi, maybe you are a councillor. Who knows?
As for the Council not owning the arcade, I do know that. However, they have a vested interest in it. Do you think the retailers do their trade there for free or that the parking is free? I will guarantee you some nice deals went on as well when it was being built. Maybe some of the money made should be ploughed back into the roads. Tha gets nowt for free.

What took the Labour rump so long in getting a voice on the inside of WW.

Has the Joint Service Centre been shelved then?

Is traffic management now decided for the entire region from Manchester, including traffic light phasing?

sledge you have a sneering and nasty attitude towards the people of Wigan and seem to belive that the Highways Departmant can do no wrong.

You make light of the traffic situation in Wigan, but the traffic in Wigan is too "heavy" and we need more roads.

Why are the Highways Department putting down speed bumps along every side street in Wigan, surely they should be only put where there are accident black spots and outside places like schools, I for one am sick of bumping over the bloody things all day and I am sure the police, ambulance and fire brigade think the same way, it must be hell trying to get quickly to an emergency over those flaming things

Why are rat runs being blocked off, which in turn pushes even more traffic on to the main roads.

Why was Anderton Street at Higher Ince treated as a rat run, surely that road should be treated as an access road for the Greenfield Avenue estate, instead traffic has got to turn right at the traffic lights at Ince Bar and then the traffic enters the estate along narrow side streets, surely that is more dangerous than traffic going down Anderton Street, how thick must the person be who decided to block off Anderton Street.

Why don't the Highways Department listen to the people of Wigan, instead of like you thinking they know best.

Franny Franny Franny??

Please please pretty please

At least try and answer my questions. Yes attack is the best form of defence but you will have to display some credability before long.... so far there has been none.
You are making all these observations and statements and forcing your opinions on the good people of this forum with no evidence whatsoever other than your own brand of heresay....why should anyone believe you?....BACK THEM UP MAN, BACK THEM UP give us some proof of your claims instead of waffling on and on and on and on and on.

You will be telling us next that WMBC were involved in the Princess Diana cover up....er...ooppss no-one saw that ok?

Dont ask me APLS.....you will get a better answer if you go through the proper channels and ask them yourself....go on....I dare you. Then you can come back with some facts.....for a change

Traffic lights in Wigan are controlled by Manchester UTC. (Urban Traffic Control)
The vast majority of junctions have an otu fitted which sends a signal to a control centre to change the flow of traffic at any time of day.
It is pointless extending a particular phase when the adjoining road is already gridlocked.
So sledge is right, its the ammount of traffic, but the rest of you are right, its bad planning by all local authorities.
The priority for the forseable future is pedestrian crossings, to comply with the Disabilities act.
The saddle is being UPGRADED with more pedestrian crossings.
If someone wants to contact the council about the B&q lights. The pedestrian crossing at that part of the junction is PD. (permanent demand) Very easy to fix.
Paul.

Why don't the Highways Department listen to the people of Wigan.

They do, but first YOU have to talk to them and tell them you have an issue, they dont read minds...... and I will reiterate what I said earlier that we dont live in a perfect world, they dont have the abilty to instantly fix every problem, they have to prioritise and NOR can they keep everyone happy at the same time.

Gotta go back under cover, I am going to get sussed.

Sledge, excuse me but what evidence have you provided? All that I have said is that there is poor planning which is evidenced every single day by constant traffic jams and people throughout Wigan, not only on this forum, becomming increasingly frustrated at poor services. Your rhetoric does not stand up to the perception of the majority I have spoken to. I aint attacking you, I am debating with you.
You are attacking;
"You really seem to be struggling with the concept that things cost money and the fact that money does not grow on trees.
"I wouldnt ask any opinions in here, there is an underlying factor and a mindset that tells me I would not get a truly representative answer so its a pointless excersise. Oh hang on, I see what you did there, you tried to get me to look daft... nahnahnah, and NO I am not going to say what it is, work it out yourself......Can I get back to my laughing now?
"If you are not happy do something about it, otherwise sit there moan and suffer......I really dont care I will just sit here laughing"

Its a debate sledge. Lets be honest, Wigan has changed enormously in the last few years but the Council have been unprepared for the change and the result is gridlock and mayhem. Paul puts a sensible slant on things. Heres betting that the increased pedestrian crossings at the Saddle leads to even more mayhem. Glad I do not work in Wigan Town Centre, thats all I can say!

a 2 pronged argument ?

We have had problems with traffic lights in our area, for three months.I rang the council and they transfered me to Manchester, who control all the traffic lights in the Greater Manchester.I was told that they knew about the problems.I was also told that the "loop" had been cut.They said it was on their agenda to be fixed. That was 10 weeks ago. Still no action has been taken.

I think that these busy junctions could be better if the lights were cancelled and a traffic island was put in place,Marus Bridge island copes well with a terrific amount of traffic,just think what comes of the motorway at peak times,its well worth a try I think.

Exactly Brendan. Sledge is talking as if Wigan Council have nowt to do with traffic lights, as if any bugger can turn up and put lights where they want. Mind you, state of em, it may the case!

paulw

I think that traffic light controlled pedestrian crossings are a good idea, because if there are no pedestrians wanting to cross the road, then the road can be used by motor vehicles and when a pedestrian wants to cross the road, they press a button and hey presto the traffic stops and they can cross the road, the pedestrian is given priority, that is fine and I agree with it and if those people sensor things detect people still crossing the road, then let them all cross the road before letting the traffic flow again

St Pauls Avenue at Goose Green is a big wide road which is used to access the estate there and if you wish to travel to Poolstock Lane from Goose Green and visa versa you can use this road, but not according to Wigan Council Highways Department, they want to discourage use of this road by putting numerous obstacles in the road, such has multiple speed cushions placed only a couple of meters apart, which mean you have to almost stop, so has not to rip the suspension out of your vehicle, because the speed cushions are about has high as you can get and near to Poolstock Lane there is a kerb height all the way across the road speed hump and what I would like to know is {WHY} have all the obstacles been placed on that road, surely a traffic light controlled crossing would have been far better for both pedestrians and motorists, why should vehicles not use that road to go to between Poolstock and Goose Green, why do the Council want to make traffic go to the roundabout at Marus Bridge and then go round into Poolstock Lane, does that improve the lives of the residents of St Pauls Avenue, well to answer that question you only have to ask someone who lives on a main road with a speed bump outside of their house, I know someone who lives on Ince Green Lane and since speed bumps were introduced on Ince Green Lane several years ago, their lives have been made a misery by the constant noise and vibration cause by vehicles hitting the speed bump, when a lorry goes over the speed bump their house shakes so much that they are now worried that damage is being done to the foundations of their house and every night especially at weekends boy racers are scutching over the speed bumps and the noise keeps them awake all night and surely the speed bumps were put there to discourage such idiots from going fast, but it does not work because if a dickhead wants to go fast he is going to go fast, speed bump or not

Sledge is talking as if Wigan Council have nowt to do with traffic lights

Errrrm?.......oh never mind.

traffic lights

dont they?

Get back to your spin-master Sledge your case is falling apart.

Despite what it says on the webpage the answer is Yes AND no, it depends on what you may want to define as the responsibilty for (or in some cases liability is) and what the issue relating to the particular set might be. Yes...traffic is first port of call but after that other people/depts and organisations such as the Highways Agency and DOT may become involved and assume authority over the matter.

No more info...I know you all want me to stay and argue with you but sorry....... I am gonna get busted if I carry on.

sledge, I bet you have never worked for any other organisation other than Wigan Council and as such, have no experiance of dealing with the general public, it would have done you good if you had worked for a company, where you would have had to deal with members of the public.

Another round of applause for APLS for his outstanding display of ignorance, assumption and narrow-mindedness........WAAHHHYYYY lets hear it.

"I am gonna get busted if I carry on."

Talk about Peys above Sticks, put up or shut up.

Well what a good answer sledge.......

So you dont like the idea of traffic islands

sorry chaps but the web page says " RESPONSIBLE" if this isnt true then it needs to state that clearly.

Indeed....a good answer to a ridiculous statement but. If I did have to deal with people like you regularly my job would be far far more rewarding.

coccium

You are right about roundabouts, they do help the traffic flow, but putting in a roundabout is to easy an option for the Wigan Council Highways Department, mention a roundabout to them and they start going on about traffic flows having to be the same on all sides of the roundabout for it to work properly, well look at Skelmersdale, they do not have any traffic lights, they only have roundabouts and guess what, they don't have any traffic jams either

Well take it up with the MBC then if you think the website is misleading. The buck for everything that goes on in Wigan including who looks after the traffic lights stops at the various government depts who the MBC have to answer too.

Don't stay "under cover" tell all and let the public judge.

Have you ever seen the jams by the sally army at rush hour? The road is a nightmare, traffic blocks the junction and there are no crossings there either. People regularly take their lives in their hands trying to cross. Yet further up at Greenough Street there is a state of the art crossing which is barely used ! Also while the bee is firmly in me bonnet the crossing across to Scholes precinct !!!! Another nightmare you can wait upto ten minutes for the crossing to activate once the button is pushed !

Thanks latics! a thowt a wer being ignored

Sledge yes it is misleading and seeing as you appear to be Wigan Council's (Wigan MBC went yonks ago chuck) spokesperson for the evening would you like to pass it on ?

Cocci I dont like roundabouts, male drivers dont understand give way to the right !

well look at Skelmersdale, they do not have any traffic lights, they only have roundabouts and guess what, they don't have any traffic jams either

Nor do they have the population density and number of vehicles we in wigan do. You also forget that Skem was a new town and its roads planned and built at the same time as the various estates so its no real surprise the dont suffer from congestion.......On the other hand Wigan already had the roads and the planners had to work around them.....much harder.

Well who are you sledge? Are you like Danni says " Wigan Council's spokesperson or what.

Yeah danni....old habits take along time to die, they will always be the good old MBC to me, I will call them The Council if you like but its a mouthfull, and despite what you may think I am not acting as their spokesman far from it.....just attempting to prove to some of the more narrow minded in here that they are not as smart as the think they are on some matters.

good old mbc? Take it you havent been affected by JE then like a lot of us have?

I like you XRH, you have wit, intelligence and dont make assumptions or jump to conclusions and have a very open minded view on most things....

Can we be friends....oh go on.

good old mbc? Take it you havent been affected by JE then like a lot of us have?

Maybe, maybe not. I dont feel the need to prove anything....please take me as I am.

not asking you to prove anything chuck, theres nothing good about the Council at the moment for a lot of people.

Some people and some Wigan councillors talk as though Wigan was the only town with an high density of traffic,most towns have lots of traffic but some towns know how to deal with it.When I was at school in the 50's Wigan had huge traffic jams then Chapel Lane and Standishgate was choked with traffic then,there has been millions spent on Wigans roads since then but little as changed regarding the gridlocks.

Sledge, just because someone disagrees with you does not make them narrow minded. You are not the oracle and people do not agree with everything you say. Try opening your ears now and again.

well said Cocci !

Anyway, a way to solve the problem is to have a Wigan Airport;

Wigan Airport

When I was at school in the 50's Wigan had huge traffic jams then Chapel Lane and Standishgate was choked with traffic then,there has been millions spent on Wigans roads since then but little as changed regarding the gridlocks.

Apart from the fact that car ownership and vehicle use in the borough has increased dramatically over the last 50 years, which cancels out the effect of any road improvement over time.

Agreed Franny, but all I am asking you to do is back up your claims particularly the earlier one that suggested the planners were on a nice little earner for pushing through the grand arcade. Thats not debate, its an accusation and I sometimes struggle with that sort of menatality, but never the less....tick tock tick tock.

Like I said,OTHER TOWNS HAVE COPED,but not Wigan.WHY?

Erm Sledge I never at anytime claimed planners were on a earner and I strongly suggest you reread my comments. What i said is that money is made through the Grand Arcade. You intimated that the council do not make money from the arcade. Of course they do otherwise it would not be appropriate to have such a buidling in Wigan. This is what I wrote;
"As for the Council not owning the arcade, I do know that. However, they have a vested interest in it. Do you think the retailers do their trade there for free or that the parking is free? I will guarantee you some nice deals went on as well when it was being built. Maybe some of the money made should be ploughed back into the roads. Tha gets nowt for free"
Where at any point do I say planners or anyone else was on the make. I am saying that appropriate distribution of the money made could help pay for the infrastructure to promote the arcade including an appropriate road network. Get yer facts right.

Hmmmmm...cant help but notice the original comment was edited AFTER after I read it, no proof is there, guess I have to give you the benefit of the doubt...Hey ho, but I am sure you in light of this you will be more careful in future with what you say....know what I mean

Anyway, you made plenty of other claims, perhaps not as derogatory as my aledged suggestion......are you going to back any of them up or keep wiggling. Facts? Evidence?...the clock is till ticking

Lets start with public transport.....you say its s***, fair enough....back your claim up..over to you, take it away.

Oi Sledge, I never made that comment so dont say that I did. Careful with what I say? I dont think so. I speak my mind and do not start making allegations when you have lost an argument. I suggest you are very careful what you say as well and what you are alleging about me. Enough people on here have read what I have said and many agree. I have had enough of the debate with you to be honest sledge, I dont particularly like the way you react when you are backed in a corner. We will simply agree to disagree.Leave it at that.

Sounds like a council meeting I'm of al sithee

G-nite franny ZZZzzzzz.

Nite sledge

Not entering into the Pro's and con's of the discussion, but has anyone noticed how SLOW the first car in the queue is to move off when the lights turn to green, then the second car, and so on? I travel on a few bottle-neck roads here in Australia and it give me the s***s when I see the lights turn green then it's ages before the first car moves off. The driver of the car in front doesn't care whether you get through or not as long as he is OK. I know this doesn't solve the problem but it would help if everyone is ready to move as SOON as the lights turn green, instead of three or four cars getting through, maybe 6 or 7 would make it.
My Nephew lives on Woodhouse Drive and I have seen the problem when I have visited him.

fred....just think of the "POWER" the creep feels he has over everything in his rear mirror.

"I like you XRH, you have wit, intelligence and don't make assumptions or jump to conclusions and have a very open minded view on most things....

Can we be friends....oh go on."


Your sounding very familiar now sledge, but I can't just pin you down at the mo.

PS. I'm everyone's friend me.

I never thought of that Billy, you could be right

1)Why dont they make it 2 lanes along scot lane from the junction with Woodhouse lane, the bridge is certainly wide enough. Have a look how wide the bridge is at that point next time you pass. see here
2) why dont they open stadium way up so you could drive from Martland mill to B&Q without having to pass robin park/JJb/Asda?
3) who blocked off the new road from Martland mill to Heinz's Walthew house lane? see here

1)Why dont they make it 2 lanes along scot lane from the junction with Woodhouse lane.

It would be to easy for Wigan Council to do that, instead they have just built a pavement along there, when the road was obviously designed to be duel carriageway, as you have pointed out Surgeon, the bridges over the River Douglas, Canal and Railway bridge were built wide enough for a duel carrigeway.

2)Why dont they open stadium way up so you could drive from Martland mill to B&Q without having to pass robin park/JJb/Asda?

Because David Whelan owns that road and he does not want it to be used.

3)Who blocked off the new road from Martland mill to Heinz's Walthew house lane?

Dave Whelan also owns that road and same answer as previous question, he does not want it used has a main road.

So you all now know why Whelan, is know as the JACKASS.

1)Why dont they make it 2 lanes along scot lane from the junction with Woodhouse lane, the bridge is certainly wide enough. Have a look how wide the bridge is at that point next time you pass. see here
2) why dont they open stadium way up so you could drive from Martland mill to B&Q without having to pass robin park/JJb/Asda?
3) who blocked off the new road from Martland mill to Heinz's Walthew house lane?

3 Good questions Sir, and there are 3 good answers to match. However I fear than any attempt to answer them in deatail by myself might be met by disbelief, cyncisim and critique.....my suggestions is that as well as asking the questions to yourself , you also consider the implications of carrying out your suggestions. ie. would the widening of Scot lane and the £Ms it would cost be an effective exercise and would it actually lead to an improvement in traffic flow or would it introduce congestion in other areas and be a pointless venture a white elephant and a vote loser? My own view is that it would encourage even more traffic into the bottle-neck that is the Saddle junction...but hey-ho.

Then ask yourself the same about the presently closed roads you mention. Are they suitable for the increased traffic flow they would see and meet the required DOT regulations, how much would it cost to bring them up to standard, and this is the biggy.......does the *MBC/Council/Metro* (Delete as applicable) actualy own the land/roads in question and have the authority to open them up as public highways. `Clue`.....Heinz and JJB (or whoever owns them this week) are rich organisations,their assets include more than a football/rugby ground and a bean factory and dont end at the fences.

For the definative answer can I refer you to the *MBC/Council/Metro* (Del as applic). They have several flunkies who are paid well (from your council tax) to answer questions and make problems dissapear. You will receive a personalised reply on headed notepaper signed by someone who knows what they are talking about........so take my advice and get your moneys worth Pal.

PS They may even tell you about some of their `secret plans`

How can Dave Whelan own Stadium way? He doesn't even own the land that the JJB stadium is built on

How can Dave whelan own Walthew house lane? It was around long before he was AND he doesn't own JJB anymore.

So you'll have to have a rethink APLS

i know this since the football and rugby stadium moved to jjb the roads in are street are gettin trashed full of pot holes it is like whackey races through the estates after a match day

You are half right on just one of your 3 answers APLS call it 16.56% pretty poor really....... MUST TRY HARDER

Care for another punt at it Sir, maybe do some homework/research first??

Before Martland Park was developed, Walthew House Lane was nothing more than a dirt track and certainly not suitable for motor vehicles and after Martland Park was built it was a senior policeman who told me that Dave Whelan had stopped that road being used has a cut through to Spring Road and thus providing a bypass for Marsh Green and it was also in the local newspapers at the time, that Dave Whelan had said that he would only allow that road to be used if it was part of another road which was proposed which would have seen Miry Lane extended to Scot Lane and then up Challenge Way past the JJB Warehouses and across Spring Road and across the fields coming out opposite the motorway access road at Orrell, thus providing another route to the M6 from Wigan Town Centre.
It probably did not get the go ahead because to sounded to sensible to the Wigan Council Highways Deparment.

And in the case of the road from Stadium Way to Newtown, it was in the papers when it was completed that Dave Whelan said the road could only be opened amd used on match days only.

What's all this "pal", "sir"? are you the caliber of individual who works for the council these days?

A senior policeman eh?.....oohhh-er it must be true then. Hang on, whats this....now we are getting warmer. PSSST APLS? The clues are in the words "Unadopted" and "Heinz"........I cant see the words "Dave" and "Whelan" anywhere, can you?

http://www.wigantoday.net/wigannews/Grandad-calls-for-safety-measures.4211658.jp?CommentPage=1&CommentPageLength=10

APLS? can you hear something? a kind of loud rumbling thunder? I can, is it your credibilty tumbling down to the ground.......oh my ribs

What's all this "pal", "sir"? are you the caliber of individual who works for the council these days?

How would you like to be adressed?.....I am easy.

Mr Sedge.

I am only saying what I have read with my own eyes in the Wigan Evening Post and heard from a senior policeman, you sound like you don't believe me so all I can do is tell you the circumstances in which I came across this information.

One evening and this is getting on for ten years ago, there had been a bad accident and Scot Lane was closed, the traffic jam was horrendous I was driving in Kitt Green and the road through to Challenge way had been completed not to long before this and it was fully tarmaced with pavements and street lights and traffic had started using it, I remember myself driving through from Challenge Way and I thought, like others that we now had a new road through to Kitt Green and the motorway, but this new route was very short lived when a metal barrier and gate was put across the road, but sometimes the gate was open and you could drive through and this particular evening I went to see if it was open, when I arrived at the gate which was shut, there were several police officers there who were examining the gate and it transpired that the police were trying to find the key holder for the gate, because they wanted to open it and divert the traffic through there, and then they were discussing cutting off the padlock and were in the process of arranging this when they got a message which told them to "hang fire and don't cut the lock off" after a few minutes a "senior police officer" appeared from the Challenge Way side of the gate and told the officers that they could not open the gate and he told them that it was something to do with Dave Whelan" Heinz was not mentioned.
The policemen there were disgusted and thought that it was ridiculous that the gate could not be opened and now I notice that a large quantity of soil has been placed across the road to ensure that traffic does flow through there.

On the subject of adopting the road, if that was the case I am sure Wigan Council would have adopted that road a long time ago, if it would have meant there then being a Marsh Green bypass in place.

Mr APLS,
I appreciate the level headed approach you are starting to take on this issue and the fact it would appear you are begining to realise that not everything is the fault or indeed in the control of WMBC.

CORRECT....it is an unadopted road. In effect its privately owned land, it might as well be a field, factory premises or even someones drive and who is to say, despite it being a strip of tarmac that it meets legal design requirements and is suitable for even light traffic use. Because the road is in effect private the issue of liabilty rears its head. If the policeman had cut the padlock and allowed traffic through who would have assumed responsibilty for what would have been in effect a act of tresspass, more importantly who would be paying out if there was an accident attributable to the roads condition?........well I dunno, but I tell you who wouldnt....WMBC.

Here comes the answer.....you can choose to believe me or not, I wont argue. Walthew House Ln from its junction with Springs Rd to the gate you talk about belongs to the biggest manufacturer of canned foods in the world and has done so since the day they laid the first brick.......they bought it as part of the land package way before the Martland mill industrial site was even considered and despite continued ongoing efforts by WMBC to reach a compromise over the issue they refuse to play ball and allow vehicle use along it........... A similar situation also applies for Stadium way.

Please dont come back saying your uncles, brothers, wifes, aunts neighbour used to clean the bogs in Heinz and she says you are wrong or something similar The fact is its a very complicated legal issue and beyond the full control of WMBC.

Thank you for taking time to read my comments, I hope they clarify things for you and more importantly make you consider the big picture before directing critique at the minions toiling away in civic hall.

Have a nice day.

Sledge
you said "When the Beech Hill junction was designed and built it was deemed adequate"

When the junction was built there was no road going over the canal/douglas, it went over Martland mill, so yes the junction was adequate,
I live close to this junction and in all honesty it's a cock up by the Highways dept, but like all the times in the past all over Wigan, they wont do anything about it until someone get's hurt or worse in an accident, until then nobody on the council listen's

As I have tried to explain from the start its not a case of not listening or heads being stuck in sand, its a case of not having the cash to do what is needed...yet!....Now would be a good time to quote the old maxim....."Closed minds are often accompanied by closed ears"....but I wont, oh hang on I just did....oh never mind.

Yes you are a right, a fatal or two would prioritise the issue and maybe even get us some more government cash to address the problem...assuming of course the junction or the way it operates was deemed to be a contributing factor in the accident.......Can I assume from your S/N that you are a professional driver? If so I would expect you to realise that accidents are in the main down to human error, not congestion.

Mr Sedge.

I believe you when you say that Walthew House Lane is owned by Heinz from the junction with Spring Road up to the gate, I recall at the time the road was built, Heinz had built car park no 2 down there at about the same time.

But who owns Walthew House Lane from the gate up to the junction with Challenge Way?

I am saying that the incident I described was nearly ten years ago, but thinking about it I think it was more like 15 years ago, not long after JJB Warehouse no 1 was built and at that time there was only the JJB Warehouse up there and that was the only place that Challenge Way went to, so who owns Challenge Way or the part of Challenge Way outside of JJB Warehouse no 1?

Where does the NWDA fit into all this?

But I am adamant that at the time it was reported in the Wigan Evening Post that Dave Whelan owned the road which ran past the JJB Warehouse and he would not agree to it being used for through road to Kitt Green, now Heinz may well not want the road to be used at their end of Walthew Lane, but what puzzles me is why the road was built straight through there, why was two cul-de-sacs not built instead, one at each end of where the gate and soil is now?

Maybe JJB Sports have no objections now, after all Dave Whelan does not own the JJB Warehouses anymore.

A private road can be laid down in law has a public highway, by mutual agreement between the owners of the road and the local Council and then all relevant road traffic act laws apply to the road.

I think that the question here is why was “A” road built straight through from Martland Park up to Spring Road complete with pavements and street lamps?

Lots of questions, I cant answer them all nor do I have time too. A lot of it happened way before my time an I am going home now and its beer nite. Most of the issues are down to Heinz, they have the upper hand, they keep saying no to any proposals and they dont have to give a reason why.

NWDA are to busy frying bigger fish, like the Chinagateway.

Tune in tomorrow.

Can anybody from the council tell me why a pavement has been layed after the beech hill /scot lane junction when it is obvious another lane was needed

Firstly I dont speak for the WMBC in any official capacity, but I will offer my suggestions and answers..........

Could it have been perhaps because the old pavement had worn out and was becoming dangerous to the people who have to use it, or has it seen an increase in use??? Thats the usual reason they get relaid/replaced. Remember that pavement was laid way before the JJB was conceived and no-one wants any of the rugby/footy fans that use it to trip over and hurt themselves.......do they?

But what good would another carriageway on Scot Ln do? Would traffic get through the junctions on it and at either end of it any quicker or would it just over-egg the pudding and cause even more congestion???

Think hard now because sometimes what seems to be the most obvious answer is not always the correct answer

Another lane would be MOST useful, because one could be for straight on to the saddle and the other could be for Martland park/marsh green etc, therefore would be good!
Your theory of 2 lanes and congestion doesn't hold water. Should we reduce the East Lancs rd to 1 lane then?

Another amatuer arm-chair traffic planner eh This forum seems to be chocko with them. Do you expect me to bow down to your apparant superior knowledge and experience Sir? Dont just say it would be usefull, explain WHY in detail.

Even if we were living in a limitless-cash fuelled Utopia your 2 line answer/proposal to this issue contains more holes in it than a well used welders tee-shirt and would raise far more issues than it is likely to solve......However I fear that even if I had an hour or two to point them out (despite your self-held belief that you are an expert and authority on this subject) not only would you fail to see recognise and comprehend the problems you would THEN carry this debate on accusing ME of not seeing the light.

Here comes the answer, you want me to say it so I will. Another lane would improve things....BUT, there is far more to it than laying another 1/2 mile of tarmac and planting a few streetlights. There would also have to be improvements elsewhere in the area to see any real benefit......This is the bit you are abviously struggling with so take it in.......It doesnt matter how wide Scott lane is and how many cars are on at at anyone time, they ALL have to stop and get through Beech-hill lights, Challenge way lights, the mini at the bottom of KG road, the lights and box at the bottom of Monty, the cop-shop crossing and finally ASDA and thats before the dreaded Saddle Jct..........can you see the fundemantal problem now, is it going in, has the wood suddenly just jumped out of the trees, has the penny become a victim of gravity......... or is it still all an unfathomable alien concept to you?.

More vehicles, without an improved flow rate = more congestion. I cant make it any simpler

Anymore questions?

Improved flowrate between Woodhouse lane and Marsh green would indeed occur if another lane was put where it was initially intended along Scot lane.
Therefore to make it SIMPLE for you, another lane = improved flow rate between the above 2 points.
I am considering the OP, and not getting side tracked and meandering off on one like you seem to do at every turn.
I for one am glad the forum is chocko with amatuer traffic planners........its better than NO OFFICIAL ones bothering to reply. Its about debate, or have you forgot what a 'communicate' section is for!
Can only proffesional traffic planners come on here and talk about traffic lights?

Mr Sedge

Why don’t you just give 100% of an answer, instead 85% of your reply is sneering, condescending, ignorant, waffle and if a nasty piece of work like you, actually works for Wigan Council, then god help us all.

Mr.Sedge's attitude puts me in mind of our MP Neil Turner who rebuked a local constituent who had dared to write to him by returning his letter with the spelling mistakes underlined and corrected.

It turned out the man was dyslexic.

Full Article Here

Could Mr.Sedge be former Chairman of Highways and Works councillor Neil Turner?

What a cheap shot!

Just read that article bennie. How arrogant is he. Makes an excuse that he did not know the chap was dyslexic. As if that excuses his behaviour. Disgusting way to act as a so called representative of the people of Wigan.

What is really sad is that Turner has been returned to office twice since this disgraceful incident.

Improved flowrate between Woodhouse lane and Marsh green would indeed occur if another lane was put where it was initially intended along Scot lane.
Therefore to make it SIMPLE for you, another lane = improved flow rate between the above 2 points.

Sir I appologise for my apparent harshness, but maintain your theory is flawed......
Between your two points are 3 sets of lights, 1 RH Tee-junction and 1 mini roundabout. These together with vehicle volume are the reason for the reduced flowrate and ultimate congestion. Widening the road on its own will not allow vehicles to pass through them any quicker. Flow rate between them and I emphasise between them may improve but there will be negligable improvement over the full length of the road over any given period of time. The priority needs to be to get vehicles through these bottlenecks quicker thereby improving flowrates and reducing congestion. This can not be acheived by widening the road as a stand alone project.

People assume that widening a road automaticaly increases the flowrate, this is not always true, it increases its capacity. The flowrate of a road depends on how fast vehicles can travel between certain points. In the case we are talking about there are a number of junctions along the way which slow traffic down and reduce average speed, the fact they are closely spaced compounds the issue.

You can compare Scot Lane to a length of water pipe partialy constriced in several places over its length by the junctions mentioned, rather than removing or reducing the effect the constrictions have, you are suggesting increasing the pipe size either side of them........unfortunately it does not solve the problem.

Well in my defence....In here I have seen plenty of condescending, ignorant, misinformed derogatory comments directed at WMBC and its policies and employees, in fact its going on right now
Oh c-mon? are some of you really the type of people who like to dish it out but cant take it back??

If you dont mind I will just join in, go with the flow and pick my targets, seems the norm in here.

Let he who is without sin...etcetcetcetc.

speaking of sin sledge...who told these pompos ar******s they were worth the preposterous salaries they award themselves????some council leaders are on more than the prime minister???is this what makes them so arrogant and beyond reach of reality.???

Dunno.....next?

...they claim for everything except the kitchen sink oops sorry the Home Secretary did and the 88p plug too. just for good measure.

Bennie??

Tell us something new ZZZzzzzz.

How can I tell you anything new Mr.S when you already know everything about everything.

Please refer to post #56

Dunno.....next?

Well no denial from Sledge that he is either Neil Turner or one of his vicars on Earth so make your own minds up.

bennie, mr sledge could be anyone from the Council,but I am leaning towards your idea. What interests me tho is that he posts in "core time" and Wigan Council employees are not allowed to do that with the threat of sacking

Hiya Danni,

I'd noticed his hours too, Turner claims so much in expenses he can afford a fleet of goons to spin the New Lab mantra.

But Sledge,s intimate knowledge of the road systems leads me to believe that he must either Turner's poodle or the Grim beast himself.

rules are personal internet can only be used before 9.45am between 12 and 2pm and after 4pm. You have to be signed out from work (i.e. in your own time) plus you have to pay £7.50 a month for the privilege.

He ain't here now Danni, it must be a beer night.

must be bennie, oh I must be careful what I say dont want to be called names again

Nah Danni....you have given me no reason to intentionaly call you names and I am not going to. I like you, in fact of all the people in here I suspect you are the one most likely to know who I am without taking, wild, uninformed shots in the dark....like Bennie. . PS The `core rule` doesnt apply to me.

Well no denial from Sledge that he is either Neil Turner or one of his vicars on Earth so make your own minds up.

No addmission either Bennie....so carry on making your mind up ....in the meantime I will carry on shooting your theories down.

Didnt think it did Sledge else why would you risk sacking like the poor minions

Dani, darling, dearest.....dont follow the sheep and make assumptions and let yourself down. Just beacause the core rule doesnt apply to me dont assume I abuse the fact. For all you or anybody else knows I could be on holiday this week, or working from home and not using the council servers.

Sledgie dearest the name's Danni not Dani. One thing you should know about me is that I dont make assumptions about anything, I search for the truth in all matters.

I had a touch od Dyxs` when I was kid, forgive my grammer. I wish you luck in your search for the truth.

PS....Look at this. Mr Kimber has finaly let the cat out of the bag

http://www.wigantoday.net/wigannews/100m-scheme-to-create-thousands.5161408.jp

Its gonna get even hotter in here now

Grammar not a problem, but be careful of the spelling police.

I read it earlier, yet another grand scheme with insufficient infrastructure in place It should be a condition of these developments that they contribute towards new roads.

Or....do they do that already and the road money is used elsewhere?

sledge's link

Why not use your position/contacts to find out and tell us yourself. I think some people in here would rather hear the facts from you.......rather than me

I think you are doing a grand job...carry on !

Danni, I am off to visit my darling mother, I will return later this evening to gauge forum interest in Mr Kimbers latest vision.....and maybe just maybe, fend off some of the negative comments the more cynical members of this forum will inevitably make.

Have a nice day.

laters

I read it earlier, yet another grand scheme with insufficient infrastructure in place It should be a condition of these developments that they contribute towards new roads.

Errrm, this is a big project and as such will impact on infrastructure in a way that cannot be controlled under good-old straightforward planning permission. As such a SEC106 will be drawn up and agreed upon, in the S106 council will request (amongst other things) a contribution toward highway upgrades from the developer. How much we pay and for what is probably still undecided and will be decided upon as the project develops, but we wont be paying for all the required highway works........or did you already know this??

BTW...Can someone tell me why the issue of roads is ALWAYS the first thing mentioned by the detractors when schemes like this are announced. Consider this......Not all the people who will use this development will use vehicles on it, but they WILL all need to use the khasi......the sewers would be my first question, specificaly....can they cope??

However Winstanley Independent Coun Bill Wilkes, who represented objectors, said he was "amazed" the massive scheme had generated only 15 protests from residents.

He predicts that the project will create further "gridlock" traffic problems because the roads weren't in place to service it, particularly now that Route 5225 has formally been abandoned.

Coun Wilkes warned the planning committee: "The infrastructure is just not in place for such a vast development.

"There is the very real lack of access to the site from the M6 and only vehicles coming from the south will be able to access it from Landgate Junction but those from northbound will have to come via Pemberton or Ashton and then have to return via Orrell or Ashton to travel south again.

"There will be many thundering lorries required to remove the coal slag waste from the site and thousands of tons of concrete to build rafts to secure foundation to the properties."

He said that he had personal experience of the condition of this "foul smelling" waste when digging foundations for the Scout Headquarters at Anthorn Road.

Coun Wilkes added that the proposed exit from the site at Foundry Lane, would also be problematical and some fatal accidents have already occurred there.

He said: "This is a natural area that has self developed over 30 years and now supports water voles in the Smithy Brook, bats, squirrels and numerous birds nesting on the site."
"There will also be a loss of amenity in the proposed use of the Foundry Lane playing field."

as stated by a councillor in said article

I know Councilor Bill Wilkes, he is CAP Councillor

So this is the latest crackpot scheme from the Council Highways Department, which will get everyone's hopes up and just like the Westwood Park link road and Chinagate, it will end up being "shelved" and maybe instead of a £100m project for Wigan (don't make me laugh) a few thousand will be spent on building a new pavement from Goose Green to Highfield

Talking of detractors......here they come

From your S/N I would assume you are proud of our town.....or are you? Dont you want to see things change for the better in Wigan? Or are you so narrow-minded you see new jobs and employement potential, new housing and improvements to the infrastructure as a bad thing? Maybe you would be happier seeing vast swathes of ugly brownfield left as is and watch as Wigan struggles to overcome the decline of the pits and mills golden age and become a viable option for outside investment and the benefits it would bring?

Maybe you should launch a campaign in Wigan for the return of trams, standpipes on each corner and the rebuilding of Scholes..........take your blinkers off man. I dont need to make a fool of you, you are doing fine on your own.

BTW....This has been going on since about 2000 and the only way this will be shelved is if Peel Holdings or William Todd and Co drop out, even if it happened tomorrow we would still have made a tidy profit on the work to date.

I have just realised who Sledge reminds me of. Lord Haw Haw. Check out his comments, tis Lord Haw Haw;

Wigan Council Calling...Wigan Council Calling...We are doing up your highways, honest we are. There are no traffic jams, its the detractors that are promoting this ideology...Wigan Council Calling, Wigan Council Calling..

Trams back in Wigan ?

Rebuild Scholes ?

What a splendid idea Mr.Sledge.

I see myself more as a voice of reason, struggling in a sea negative and narrow minded opinion. In a way Franny You are lucky, lucky that someone is prepared to give up his time and educate you in this way.....look how much you have learned since I decided to join in with the rest of the self-rightous in here and take on the council bashers and forum Daddies.

Trams back in Wigan ?

Rebuild Scholes ?

What a splendid idea Mr.Sledge.

Yep........and I am sure your kids and grandkids will love you for it .........when they cant find jobs due to the fact Wigan cant attract business

I have just been for a wander round, amazing what you can glean from other websites

If they can't find jobs it will be because New Labour have have broke the economy or given what jobs we have to East Europeans.
I suppose there will be plenty of Guardian style non jobs in local government paying £40,000 a year to be a "tobacco cessation co-ordinator" or a "diversity & equity officer".
Don't you realise you and your ilk have detroyed the country,and Wigan, but instead of quietly slippin into the sunset you continue your onslaught leaving carnage everywhere.
Yes and rebuild the old Market Hall as well.

I think we have another ja_me on the website

I have just been for a wander round, amazing what you can glean from other websites

Indeed....certainly more than I know or can get across....believe it or not I dont know everything.

Don't you realise you and your ilk have detroyed the country,and Wigan, but instead of quietly slippin into the sunset you continue your onslaught leaving carnage everywhere.

Back your comments up Sir, otherwise its just another hot-air fueled, personal belief. We cant satisfy or keep everyone happy and this is an accepted fact so go on, I dare you, impress me.

The Original proposed route of the M58 mid Lancashire motorway, which was cancelled in the 1970's and then resurected in 1989 has duel carriageway and cancelled in 1996.


Bigger picture HERE

Wigan Council resurected it a few years later has a single lane trunk road the A5225 and cancelled it in 2007.


Wigan Inner Relief Road "Shelved"


Westwood Park Link Road "Shelved"

You and your ilk?

He might mean Elk

Nice pics APLS....
Seen them many times, how long did you spend trawling the net to find them? Shame the money isnt there to build them, we keep pushing for them and asking for it though and might get lucky one day, particulalry if the current economic climate improves and government gets some spare dosh.

Perhaps what you dont realise is that before we get the cash to build trunk roads we have to put forward detailed plans to certain government bodies higher up the foodchain than us. Part of the process involves public consultation and when the public and the media do see things like this they assume,that its a knocking bet and will happen regardless, just like they did with Wayne Rooneys baby ....WRONG!! What they dont realise (despite being told numerous times during the process) is that the final decsision is not ours and unfortunately when the powers that be say no to us, we in turn have to say no to you, so you wrongly assume its us thats knocked it on the head......... Dont worry about it though, you are not the first person to make this mistake.

So..... if you have any complaints they should be addressed to the people who do have the final say so, not the messengers or the people battling hard behind the scenes trying to make it happen.

Errrmmm?? are you trying to say something or make a point by all this?....Are your suggesting the non-fruition of these schemes is all the fault of WMBC, am I right?..... a simple Y/N will suffice.....careful now. We dont want to hear that thundering sound again do we?? Nor do I want to suffer a severe bout of rib-ache again.

Hurry up back, I am turning in soon and away for the weekend but will be back on Tues.

BTW...dont spend too long on the net trying to find something that might suggest I am lying

20+ years for a decision on a bypass is a bit much dontcha think Sledgie? If we were down south we would have the money in minutes !

I'll assume my post was ignored.

noticed that Lisa

See 19.48 ladies (blc)

Me an all Danni.

Would we?.....I dunno, there are many many factors involved and every case is different. I think if we had more industry in Wigan it would sway things in our favour....notice how the westwood link was shelved as soon as the chinese got itchy feet and going back further in time how the M58 extension plans fell through when it became obvious that skem` newtown was turning into a white elephant.

got it dostaf

Sledgie, some folk dont want a bypass and get em eg Newbury, this town is crying out for one and cant get one for love nor money !

gotcha dostaf however a reply would have been nice even to point me to said post.

Danni.....I agree, but all we can do is keep pushing and hope things change. A new Government might think differently but thats a whole new kettle of fish

a new government? How many have we had since the 5225 was first mooted? Several me thinks

I read with interest this morning, the front page of the Wigan Observer and what Lord Smith has said about the "Westwood Park Link Road" fiasco

I thought that the Westwood Park link road was planned {BEFORE} the Chinese became involved

If that is the case, after what Lord Smith has said, he should consider his position and resign has leader of Wigan Council, because he obviously does not know what his going on in Wigan Highways and Planning Dept

Proudidiot it should as not has. CLOWN

An idiot like you Brendan, would do a better job of leading the Council, rather than Lord Smith who appears to be living (and working) in cloud cuckoo land.

APLS??? Are you really the sort of person who believes everything you read in the papers and automatically assume they are infallible??.....surely not

Are you refering to the Westwood Park link road (opened Mar `07) Or the A49 Goose-Green to Westwood park link road improvement scheme (which has been defered)?

Can I suggest that before you start critisicing others you get YOUR facts right, else the word Hypocrite shall be used.

BTW....and I have said this before. The road has not been scrapped, its been defered until such time as certain factors exsist and funds are available to allow its construction.

If you are still struggling to understand this statement please say so and I will have yet another go at trying to make you understand the concept.

Well that is two very intelligent answers isn’t it, Bongo has turned into a English teacher and Mr Sedge has turned into a bullshiter of the highest order

Seriously though I believe that Lord Smith should consider his position and resign from Wigan Council.

Well you would know all about the traffic proudidiot, seeing that you are atuck in it all day.

I am "atuck" in it all day

Are you feeling alright Bongo, because you are not making any sense tonight........

Mind you, you never make any sense on any night

Just testing you out.I noticed that you had the Observer today.Where do you know Billy Wilkes from?.

I rest my case

Come on answer the question.How do you know councillro Wilkes?.

Mr Sedge has turned into a bullshiter of the highest order

eermmmmm??? do you know something I dont?.....pray tell.

Mr Sedge.

I probably know a lot of things that you don't know.

So why don't you tell us something you know, what we don't know

You have lost me APLS.....remind me what your grievence was about again.

So appraise us then, sledge.

Why don't you, proudidiot tell us how you know Billy Wilkes.

Mr Sedge.

This is my first post on this topic and it is about the junction of Scot Lane & Beech Hill Avenue..........

I go through that junction several times a day normally and have done so for many years now and here is my two penneth on the subject.

Sledge is basically right the problem is because at busy times the sheer volume of traffic is the cause of the delays, made worse lately by road works in other parts of Wigan, pushing the traffic over to that side of Wigan, the road works in Poolstock Lane push the traffic on to Warrington Road at Goose Green, which in turn gets jammed up and pushes the traffic up through Highfield Grange Avenue and Little Lane and through the estates ending up on Scot Lane, with traffic trying to enter Wigan from the Woodhouse Lane side of Wigan.

However sledge, to blame “us” is pathetic and the sort of thing a pillock who works for the Council would say, in fact it is the sort of reply an employee of the Highways Department would come out with, saying that the traffic chaos in Wigan is the publics fault for driving a car, how are we supposed to get to work! public transport I hear you say, I say “what public transport”???? there are no buses or trains which go anywhere near to where I work.

A few months ago the traffic lights where rephased at the junction of Scot Lane, Beech Hill Avenue and Woodhouse Lane, the differences being that the filter arrow for traffic turning right into Woodhouse Lane from Scot Lane and turning right from Woodhouse Drive (Standish Lower Ground side) into Scot Lane are activated at the end of the traffic flow phase, rather than at the beginning of the traffic flow phase and this allows more traffic to flow out of Beech Hill Lane and when the filter arrow for turning right into Woodhouse Lane is activated a filter arrow is activated which allows traffic to flow into Scot Lane from Woodhouse Lane and in my opinion for what it is worth, the traffic flow is much better since the lights were rephrased, with more traffic flowing out of Beech Hill Avenue and Woodhouse Lane.

Now back to what sledge said, I think that what we need is a Council Highways Department, which does not blame “us” for traffic jams, but gets "us" some new roads built in Wigan, other Towns in the country get their roads and bypasses etc built, but here in Wigan we don’t get any new roads do we, in the last week the Council has announced “another” shelved road project, that being the Westwood Park link road, which has been shelved and this adds to the list of other “shelved” road projects in Wigan.

Such has

Route 225 - M6/M58 Orrell to M61 Westhoughton link road.

Wigan Inner Ring Road - New Market Street to Saddle.
Junction extension.

A5225 The Wigan Gateway - M6/M58 Orrell to Atherton.

Westwood Park Link Road – Goose Green into Westwood Park.

And other roads from the past which were never completed.

The Northern M6 link road from Woodhouse Lane to the M6 junction at Shevington, Woodhouse Drive would have been the start of that road if it had been built and there would have been no problem with traffic at the bottom of Beech Hill now, if that road had been built.

The Southern M6 link from the M6 into Wigan, why did construction of the duel carriageway end at Goose Green, the answer is because there used to be a railway bridge there, so why were the railway bridges at Goose Green, Newtown (skew bridge) and Newtown (seven stars) not widened to accomodate the duel carriageway, the answer was to save money, well that saved money in the 1960’s has caused 40 years of motoring misery for “us” Wigner’s.

And finally the Saddle Junction Gyratory System has {{{NOT}}} worked, because the original problem still exists and that is that the traffic goes down to a single carriageway as it travels under the seven stars railway bridge “AND” because the traffic lights at the B&Q junction, which were added after the junction was built, basically screw everything up at the Saddle Junction.

So well done for Wigan Council Highways Department for some 50 years of screwing up Wigan’s roads and what is the long term goal for Wigan’s Highways Department, is it to create “total traffic gridlock” with flashing warning signs saying it is “your own fault for driving a car”!!!!

It makes me wonder if the people in the Highways Department who think up these wonderful road projects are actually “stealing” a living, because they know that none of these projects will go ahead, I say this because every so often a new road project is announced which gets everyone’s hopes up, except the “butterfly” brigade who don’t want any roads to be built anywhere, (nimbys etc) and then after a few years the said road project is “shelved” and then they have to think up another road project up to justify their £80000 a year job, so that they don’t get reviewed (sacked) well I think that the lot of them should be reviewed (sacked) now and replaced with people who know what they are doing and can get road projects planned, funded and built, instead of them always being {shelved}

That is my grievence

Well....when the so called credit crunch comes to an end and there is more cash in the system you might get lucky....chin-up old son.

Yes but before the "credit crunch" struck, Wigan Council Highways/Planning Dept were still having their grandiose unfeasable projects cancelled or shelved etc and this as been going on for the last 50 years or so.......

Maybe they'll get rid of you, sledge, and then that'll be more money in the pot to sort out the traffic problems.

Possibly......but then you, like APLS will never be satisfied will you?

All we expect from the people we pay wages to is competency.
If they cannot deliver, then they should be held responsible for the incompetent decision making. Is this too much to ask for from our employees?.

...even in cases beyond the control of those involved, bit draconian that isnt it? Geoff Hoon and his cohorts made the decision to shelve it so blame him......Wigan council were just the messengers.

I do, m8. I do.

sledge, I'm never satisfied wi' folk who can't give a straight answer - 'specially ones who're paid out of my wages!

How do you know Billy Wilkes proudidiot?.I bet that you used to work with him.

I worked in the Civil Service many years ago
and it was disheartening to find that most of my fellow workers despised the people who kept them in employment i.e .the claimants.

In a similar vein New Labour despise the idiots who vote them in time and time again.

What am I getting at?

Sedge also has power,or thinks he has, and like all control freaks he hates the very people who justify his existence.

I cant give you a straight answer in here Dizzy. If I give too much away I will blow my cover and be in trouble, its as simple as that......if you really want an answer email highways in the morning and ask them the question...go on I dare you

http://www.wigan.gov.uk/Services/GettingAbout/HighwayMaintenance/

Jeez, sledge, you're not Donal McIntire are yer???

I prefer the other fella Mat wahtsisname? does rogue traders.

Know who yer mean, sledge, and he's awreet an' all.

Mr Sedge.

If I was you I would be worried about the "Rogue Traders" program investigating Wigan Highways/Planning Department, because I wonder how many backhanders have taken place over the years in those Departments and how much public money as been squandered.
I can just imagine Matt Allwright reporting on how employees of the said Departments used to go on Internet forums and goad, taunt and sneer at ordinary Wigan folk who were just asking where all their Council Tax money was going to in the Wigan Highways/Planning Department and what was the money being spent on.

During the mid 1980's the police investigated Wigan Council, because there was some evidence that the route of the Wigan Inner Ring Road had been influenced by employees of the Council receiving "payments" from those who would or could have been affected by the route of the Ring Road.

The last Chief Executive of the Wigan council started out his council life with a position within the planning department,also the assistant Chief Executive was also in the planning dept,seem to me more of these planners have got ambitions on the job as well.

It sounds like corruption is rife within Wigan Council

Now there's a surprise.

You are gonna have to try a lot harder than that Dim

Nah, am just showing how easy it is to bring up old posts....Now, away to find the 'Mother' thread.

(Learn to punctuate).

You really cant take it can you?? Say what you like, I promise you its going to be a loooooong time before I stop laughing.

lol@ say what you like...

(She probably didn't like you much anyway).

You have said that before

I know...Am away to Mothers in a mo, make her a nice cup of tea.

Tell her I said hello

I was only thinking about this posting from this topic the other day.

"During the mid 1980's the police investigated Wigan Council, because there was some evidence that the route of the Wigan Inner Ring Road had been influenced by employees of the Council receiving "payments" from those who would or could have been affected by the route of the Ring Road"

And the other day I was looking at me 1969 map of Wigan and I noticed this





Now if you look carefully there is the outline of a new proposed road which was eventually built 20 years later as the Wigan Inner Ring Road, on this map the broken line is the proposed route of the road in 1969 so I wonder who or what organization influenced the route of the inner ring road, I thought it might have been Wigan Rugby but this route shows the road going to the West of Central Park.

She doesn't know you, nor would she like you either.

Won't be the first Woman to think that eh.

Never mind, I am sure she is proud of you though, especialy the "grown up" way you behave in here

HAHAHA...