holiday madness

I ran a relative up to Gretna Green Shopping Village this morning no trouble with Bolton Road roadworks or the M6. Came back this afternoon Southbound M6 from Junct 41 to Junct 40 Penrith Turnoff left hand lane stopped and the Northbound M6 was stop/start from Junct 40 down to Junct27 Standish just the volume of traffic no accidents

It makes you wonder sometimes, Peter, just what causes the chaos on the road.

Not quite the same as you, but today going to work at 1 p.m. the traffic was piled up at one point on Montrose Avenue and then, when I got onto the main road (after the third set of red lights went to green) the road was chocker all the way up to the Marsh Green turnoff, then nothing, and it was the same going towards ASDA. No apparent reason.

The reason is obvious, too much traffic on the road.

It seems to be the "in" thing these days with both husband and wife having a car each. Add the children in to the mix, and even more vehicles are the order of the day.

We have just the one car, and manage quite nicely.

It's true what you say about there being too many vehicles on the roads these days but, short of building over-passes, there's nothing to be done about it.

Thing is, my journey is rarely like the one I had today. I usually flirt through, apart from traffic lights, and it takes me just 15 minutes normally, but today it was 1.25 p.m. when I finally made it to work because of the congestion.

There's just too many cars on the road

No Tom. There's far to many 'Big Lorries' on the roads. On a motorway, you get a Big Lorry or two, nose to tail in the slow lane doing 56 mph.
Then another two or three Big Lorries, nose to tail, in the middle lane, overtaking the slower Big Lorries at 58 mph. So it takes them about two miles to overtake. In the meantime, there's only one lane open, the outside one, for all the cars travelling faster than 58 mph and, if one of those cars is only doing 65 mph, there's a queue forms behind.
The difference in speed causes congestion.
That's why they're making four-lane motorways. But they've not worked because people won't keep left.

Anyroad up. PeterP, there is no shopping village at Gretna Green.

Depends on what PeterP means by his Shopping Village, the tourist attraction with bar, cafes, shopping and the famous Blacksmith's Shop where they do weddings or the Caledonian Designer Outlet shopping centre which are both in Gretna Green.

Then in addition, there is also the actual village of Gretna where there is also shopping available!

There is always one who MUST be right so it was Gretna I went to not Gretna Green
From my house to Gretna Ret Park 119.7 miles
^^^^^^^^^^^to Gretna Green 120.5 miles

Cheshirecat you could be right about too many cars on the roads but some families need these cars to get to work. Some people try to car share but in this day and age were there is NO local work people have to commute to work. Yesterday the traffic on the M6 was a mix of HGV's Cars/Caravans Camper vans Work vehicles etc. The left lane Southbound M6 was stopped from Junction 41 down to Junction 40 so all other traffic had to funnel through two lanes which took about 10-15 minutes which after a while in its self would create tailbacks. Again going Northbound there where sections of the Motorway down to two lanes for roadworks.At one time some holiday makers would travel at night but a lot of motorways shut sections of motorway down at night to do roadworks.Bolton Road near where I live has roadworks for over a week(two more weeks to go) and if has taken commuters nearly a hour to get through these roadworks with tailbacks for miles,I dropped on lucky yesterday I got through in 10 mins but was only going a few hundred yards before turning off to the right before the roadworks itself and on the way back they had opened the road to traffic

Also too many on the roads now as a result of all in a family having to have their own vehicle with many having no driving license, road tax, insurance, MOT's and even banned from driving

The police have a constant job in catching them while those in authority could not care less as long as vehicles are being sold, no job losses in the motor industry and road tax, insurance premiums and fines are being paid towards the economy.

God knows what it will be like in another ten years or so with even more who can drive getting into the country so easily!

In contrast, in some other larger European countries with smaller populations, you can drive for miles and not see anything like the amount of traffic we now have in our country and reminiscence of what it used to be like in our country a few years ago

OC quite right about more drivers on the road without any license etc In over 50years of driving motorbikes,cars I have been pulled three times by the police.
1st time incorrectly fitted L-plates om my motorbike,The garage fitted them.I got off with a warning and told to get them fitted correctly
2nd time random breathalyser at 2-00pm no problems
3rd time I was stopped because the car was showing on the system as no tax/insurance. This was a Motability car and the garage had not extended the tax/insurance while I was waiting for a new car One phone call and it was sorted
I had a blue badge for over 8 years but was never asked to show any one it during this time.
Its like I have said before its a percentage game in favour of the illegal motorist

Last Saturday it took me 3 and a half hours to get back from Penrith. A lane was closed between j34 anf 32 and traffic had stopped. I came off at at 33 to get on the A6 as did many more. Then there was an incredibly long slow drive... roadworks and temp traffic lights at Barton Grange!

Peter, I wish I'd a pound for every time I've fell foul of a resident of where I've mentioned "Hindley" and they've immediately jumped down my throat with " It's Hindley GREEN".
Plain old "Hindley" doesn't exist nowadays!

JR i was stuck at barton grange on thursday.An absolute nightmare.On my way back in turned right through st michaels through to the m55.A long detour but a pleasant ride

Owd Codger said:

"with many having no driving license, road tax, insurance, MOT's and even banned from driving"

I think that you will find that if a person is driving around in a vehicle with either and or, no, insurance, tax or MOT, it will not be long before it falls foul of an ANPR camera, linked to the police.

I know a guy who drives a van every day and its mot ran out in January so those ANPR cameras are scaremongering, A bit like the TV licence vans of the 1970's/80's

You're wrong there, Tom. They are very real and do exist in droves! I got caught a few years ago by one. The police were parked in Liverpool Road, by Makerfield Timber. As I drove past their camera alerted them that I had no mot on my then van.
They followed me to my house and arrested me on the spot. Didn't believe I lived there. My wife had to come out and confirm I was hers!
They made her get my passport out of my bag to prove it was me. You see, the van with no mot was registered to one of my other addresses and my driving licence was registered at a different address, so their heads were battered with it all.
Anyroadup, they said "you'll get a summons".
They were Merseyside police, as they do the M6. So, I expected to get a summons for a local court, like St.Helens, but no, they sent me one for Salford court. I was in Spain for a few weeks so didn't turn up. About a month later, some court bailiffs came and clamped my van until I paid a £60 fine and some costs for victims. Then I got another summons from St.Helens court, saying I was speeding and had a bald tyre, which I attended. I told them all about the police's behaviour towards me, a very well respected businessman and member of the community and they accepted my word that I wasn't speeding and just gave me a £16 fine for the bald tyre (which wasn't bald at all).

a proud latics supporter

According to the Insurance companies, the number of vehicles on the roads without insurance far exceeds what is being picked up by ANPR or even CCTV camera's, especially in the more remote and rural areas of the country!

No doubt the DVLA could say the same!

Bring back the Guinness label (tax disc)

Owd Codger

To avoid ANPR cameras you will indeed have to be driving around in remote rural locations, but most people don't live in remote rural locations, they live in towns like Wigan, and I wouldn't risk driving around Wigan in a vehicle without the correct documentation on it, years ago it might have been the case of widespread flouting of vehicle regulations, but it is harder to flout the rules now

APLS there may be modern technology out there to catch the offenders but there are in proportion to vehicles on the road less people being prosecuted.I estimate a large %'d of drivers use their mobile phones on a daily bases knowing they will not get stopped same with seat belts.The technology is not deterring them from using said items

Owdcodger.
How on earth would ANY insurance company know how many uninsured vehicles are on the road

They could possibly give you a figure for insured vehicles? It would be very interesting to know how they obtain data for uninsured ones?

PeterP

The technology to catch motorists who are using mobile phones and motorists who are not wearing seat belts, that technology is very new, with very few cameras about, which have that technology available, but the straight forward ANPR (automatic number plate recognition) cameras are plentiful in number, especially in Greater Manchester, where many of them were installed to enforce the abandoned now ULEZ scheme, ANPR cameras as their name suggests can only check a vehicle registration number against the national law enforcement databases, to check that the vehicle has the correct documentation, and if the vehicle is flagged up as being of interest to the police.

CC

Simple arithmetic. The Motor Insurers’ Bureau collects data from several sources re volumes of road traffic. It knows how many are insured. The difference is the number of uninsured vehicles. The current estimated figures are, 300,000 uninsured vehicles are on the roads daily and overall there are more than 1 million uninsured vehicles that are registered with the DVLA.
Did you study differentiation and integration when at school?

Gaffer.
A bit of a deviation between 300,000 uninsured vehicles and 1 million.

Hardly an accurate figure!

It's not answered my question, though?

Who are "The Motor Insurers Bureau's several sources" whom they collect data from?

You get a fine for having a car taxed but not insured, whether it's being driven on the road or not.
If a car is SORNed you cannot be fined, but you cannot have current tax paid on it.
So, any car showing as 'uninsured' on MiD but is taxed, the 'registered keeper' gets a £100 fine automatically.
It follows that any car being driven uninsured will not be taxed either, unless, of course, it's being driven by a car dealer or a person authorised by him.

PS: Cheshirecat, it's the 'Motor Insurer's Database' where the information is taken from (MiD)

PPS: you can always have more than one car with the same registration plates on each. This is a good trick if you have cars in more than one country.

CC

There are always registered but not insured vehicles laid up for a variety of reasons.
The average number of cars being driven but not insured is 300,000. The average number of uninsured cars not being driven at a point in time is 800,000.
The average number of vehicles off road per year under a SORN certificate is 3.4 million. They don’t need to be insured for the road.

Tonks, I'm not wrong, I can't quote figures and facts like alt clever un's but, this chap I know ( and will not name) drives his work van every day and, he parks in a bus stop , which is also illegal and has done so for a long time and, he's getting away with it because, the system is overloaded,

In days gone by just, parking in a bus stop would . cause a copper to stop and give a ticket or at least, knock on his door, Am i reet or what ?

Tom, most parking violations are handled by local authorities. The police only get involved on red routes and zig zags or dangerous situations.

Tomplum just round the corner from you is the boy racers track the new section of the A49. I know it is a red route but am surprised that there are no visible cameras any where along its.