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It's Alright for Tomplum!

Started by: tonker (22777) 

Being a plumber of leisure, so to speak!
I've had a bugger of a job on today, re-routing all the old pipes from a hot water cylinder and header tank.
What made it worse, they'd been built around and I had no room to work. Had to do it myself, as I just can't get the staff these days.

Got there in the end, though!

Started: 30th Nov 2020 at 20:11

Posted by: tomplum (6968) 

Well done Sir, you have made a potential work of copper smithing into a dogs dinner, just joking mate, plumbing is not easy and like you have found out, there is never no room, you have to contort into shapes only a circus trained athlete can but, as the ole bones and joints get buckled and your eyesight and focus fail, you have to rely on the 'feel', So if you're not experienced enough to have gained the 'feel' , you are in troubled water without the paddle,
good work Tonks, today i was hanging a telly on the wall, its still there so, we both had a good day,

Replied: 30th Nov 2020 at 20:34

Posted by: tomplum (6968) 

I see Harry corbet's been there, He is the ghost of plumbers, he follows us and leaves his initials on , or near the pipework, this is a sign that, he approves of your work and it will stay watertight for ever,

H. C

Replied: 30th Nov 2020 at 20:55

Posted by: firefox (3239)

Well whoopy bleedin do!

Replied: 30th Nov 2020 at 21:00

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (6314)

Is that sumat doo wi convertin it to one of those combi things

Replied: 30th Nov 2020 at 21:32

Posted by: frecky (107)

Yer reet Tom...plumbers are sometimes looked down upon, but after working a lot for Dave Whelan ( as a contractor ) and a latics supporter once said to me that he was a type of god and I'd never have his money , I just replied " without us plumbers, he couldn't have a wash or crap "...I remembered going, a few times to clear his drains and was treated like a serf........

Replied: 30th Nov 2020 at 22:33

Posted by: jathbee (10623)

Don't take it personally frecky. He treated everyone equally.

Replied: 1st Dec 2020 at 08:46

Posted by: firefox (3239)

Am surprised you didn't use push fits and flexi's is all.

Replied: 1st Dec 2020 at 09:01

Posted by: tomplum (6968) 

frecky I was instrumental in building the Stadium I know some of the guys he took under, He have a term for us and was often heard saying , " where's them F****n' plumbers", It was a term of affevtion he used often,

Replied: 1st Dec 2020 at 09:02

Posted by: jarvo (29979) 

Dave Whelan was himself a serf many moons ago when he had is photograph taken in Highfield School yard.

Harry Catt was with him that day.

Dave never said it to Harry.

Replied: 1st Dec 2020 at 10:28

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (6314)

Tom

I am going to have to disagree here.

When I was at school, some of the lads decided to become plumbers, and although they were only fourteen, they were sent to the Wigan Tech in Library Street, the one which is the Town Hall now, and in the dungeon of that building they learned plumbing over two years, going once or twice a week, and they came away with a qualification, and then at 16 they got a job with a plumbing company, or firm of builders, and the plumbers in that company would say to them "forget what yoo have been taught, we will show yoo how to do plumbing properly" and that was the same for joiners, brick layers, leckys etc etc and then there was the whole apprenticeship thing, but those lads ended up with a {{TRADE)) and trade which set them up for life, to always be able to work and earn money, and it also gave them the ability to move around, and even emigrate to another country ......

Now lads like me, the arseholes, the thicko's, tossers, we ended up with nowt, and we couldn't emigrate, nobody wanted us, we couldn't even get a job in St Helens

So I don't know where you get this notion that folk don't like plumbers, I think it's nuts, some folk don't like the bills they get off plumbers, but those folk don't like paying any bills to anyone.

So stop selling yourself short, a plumber is a well respected member of the community, and a valued member of the community, a member of the community who is a trade's person, and a person who is needed by that community

Replied: 1st Dec 2020 at 11:00

Posted by: tomplum (6968) 

people like Ester Ransom and programs like rouge traders gave us a bad rep, in Making those ' rat trap' programs were they , 'set up' a simple job, Then phoned a plumber to come fix it, they had cameras in all rooms and showed all the , low life thieving sods but never showed the good honest plumbers and, they must have some, I've worked with loads of plumber and there are some, rip off merchants, just like there are rip off taxi drivers and mechanics but, MOST trademen are genuine, Those programs should have stated after every program that, these are not your average tradesmen plumbers, but they did't and that gave ALL PLUMBERS a bad rep,

Replied: 1st Dec 2020 at 14:01

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (6314)

Tom

I completely disagree.

Over the years I have watched That's Life and Rogue Traders and I don't believe that they tarred all tradesmen with the same brush, if anything it showed that folk DON'T have to put up with the rip off merchants, but in any trade as well as having bad tradesmen, you also have bad customers, whether that be a plumber or a taxi driver, and they just don't want to pay, even if you give them a good price, they still think it is too much, and that you should do it for nothing, and some of these big companies are the worst for that, and they insist that small companies give them three months credit, and then company accountants, and that is the name given to them, but in reality they are just there to avoid that company paying, and they look for ways to avoid paying, by querying bills, and finding fault with the work etc, so in reality a small firm, or even a sole trades person, can be owed up to six months account work, having to stand six months of wages, and materials and other costs, and then that company may not pay and you have to take them to court.

So being an honest trades person, does not mean that you are going to get honest customers, so never mind the general public, tarring all trades persons with the same brush, the opposite is true, in that a honest trades person, who has had some bad customers, and as not been paid, then that trades person ends up thinking that all customers are bad.

You have for to have a nose for these things, and suss out if a potential customer is awreet and will pay and appreciate a good job done, or you have a feeling that you are going to have trouble with a customer, in which case you make an excuse and tell them to choose someone else, and it does not matter how good your nose is, yoo will get it wrong and get your fingers burned

So then it's like when you fall off your bike, you get straight back on it, and carry on cycling

Unless yoo have broken your leg, and then you can't

Replied: 1st Dec 2020 at 14:49

Posted by: tomplum (6968) 

Yes Tommy, I have had bad costumers Too, And they are always the better off, I've never had a bad experience with a working class customer, And the worst ever was a posh lawyer who had a solicitor wife and they stitched me up for a couple of grand knowing I could not win against then in court, I just had to draw a line under it and forget it and like you say, got back on my bike with a lesson learned, It left a bad taste in my mouth for a long time

Replied: 1st Dec 2020 at 17:01

Posted by: gasmon (25)

Plumbers - I've sh*t em

Sh*tters - I've plumbed 'em

Gas

Replied: 1st Dec 2020 at 21:10

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (6314)

Replied: 1st Dec 2020 at 21:16

Posted by: tonker (22777) 

Gasmen? I've passed 'em, silently!

Replied: 1st Dec 2020 at 21:25

Posted by: tomplum (6968) 

gasmen are to plumbing, what a battery changer is to a car mechanic,
you can be trained, certificated and in the job at 3 months, you have all the gear but no idea,

Replied: 1st Dec 2020 at 21:40

Posted by: gasmon (25)

Only joking lads !!!!

I can do (a bit) but hate plumbing, always under a sink does my back in, then the sodding thing still drips !!!

I'd sooner fettle a broken 12" medium pressure main pi**ing out gas in a road than a leaking soldered joint under the sink !!!

Gas fitters did a five year apprenticeship when I was a lad, as did I, but on the distribution side.

Sad to see the decimation of our gas industry. Cadent - what the hell is that about ?


Replied: 1st Dec 2020 at 21:56

Posted by: tomplum (6968) 

gasmon , welcome to Wiganworld, as a gas mon can you explain why,

when they build a new housing development, you gas men dig a trench, put you gas pipe in and fill it in, a short time later, the leccy board, dig a trench, put the cable in, then fill it in, Then a short time later, the water board dig a trench, put the water pipe in and fill it in,
All three times, they need, traffic light management and road chaos ensues
why does someone not co-ordinate the opperstion for all three services to go in at one dig ?

for kudos only, can you explain it, ,

Replied: 1st Dec 2020 at 22:22
Last edited by tomplum: 1st Dec 2020 at 22:24:52

Posted by: tonker (22777) 

O'er theer, they dig a service duct at the side of the road, where our 'gutter' is. The services all run in there.
It makes sense. Any faults can be located and repaired without digging the road up.

But they're not 'Great' like us Brits. Or are they?

(sometimes, I wonder how we got that title from. a brown envelope must've been handed over!)

Replied: 1st Dec 2020 at 23:11

Posted by: gasmon (25)

Tomplum - you're right, why dig multiple trenches ?

We tried, a couple of times to co-ordinate works with builders. A common trench, deepest first, Water, then Gas, then Electricity / Telecoms. Didn't work too well, mainly because

1 Trench open too long hampering builders, causing bits to be filled in / fall in. These days (and the last 20 years or so) every open trench needs signing / lighting / guarding - not feasible on a long open trench especially on a building site

2 Gangs can't always be available when required. We used building site work as fill in work for some gangs between emergency / urgent work (as did the electricity & water)

3. NRSWA (New road & street works act) means fines for leaving holes un worked on on certain major roads etc.

4. The only time we ever got to discuss co-ordination was at monthly Council highway meetings. This subject was often discussed, often tried but no-one ever seemed to be able to guarantee gangs / dates etc.

As one lad said at a meeting - co-ordination - it's like brushing sloppy sh*t up brew !!!

Tonker has a point. The Gas supplied to builders flexible yellow plastic ducting which they laid alongside the water service pipes which the builder laid. When we came along laying the mains the services just needed a small bore plastic pipe shoving up the duct from the main to the house. We used this in some common trench work in public roads at times.

Replied: 2nd Dec 2020 at 10:45

Posted by: peter g (2512) 

While you are on the subject of central heating pipes what is causing my pipes to bang every time i turn it on then sometimes after a while it makes a loud droning sound lasting a few minutes I only had this installed last year

Replied: 2nd Dec 2020 at 10:51

Posted by: PeterP (8226)

Air trapped in the pipes, Turn the heating up to get the radiators hot then turn your pump OFF and bleed the system at each radiator. top up with water till system shows one and a half bar

Replied: 2nd Dec 2020 at 11:06

Posted by: tonker (22777) 

Gasmon, my mate, Tommy, used t'work for t'gas boowerd, diggin' 'ows!

Replied: 2nd Dec 2020 at 11:28

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (6314)

When they built some flats near me, it looked like the builders connected all the utility stuff inside and buried the pipes and cable under a grass verge popping out at the side of the pavement, each block of six flats having a separate supply to the mains, and as I recall, because this was some 28yrs ago, there were four pipe things, and they were all together,

Red
Bloo
Yellow
White

Over the next few weeks, the Gas, Lecktric, Water and BT all came at separate intervals, and each of the four service pipe things disappeared in turn, so surely that was a way of rooting the services into the flats along the same way

Replied: 2nd Dec 2020 at 12:01

Posted by: tomplum (6968) 

peter g . It sounds like you had a poor job done, It could be air as PeterP suggests but, they should have got all the air out on commissioning the system, It could be loose pipes, maybe not clipped too well, or undersized circulation pipes so the heat cannot get round fast enough , another cause could be the TRV's are causing it, Try this open all the valves to full, see if that stops it, then go round closing one at a time, if it is a bad valve, you;ll find it when you close it,

Replied: 2nd Dec 2020 at 15:12

Posted by: peter g (2512) 

Tom it was fine last year only started last week or two

Replied: 2nd Dec 2020 at 16:28

Posted by: tomplum (6968) 

what type is it peter, a combi or a tank and cylinder type ?

Replied: 2nd Dec 2020 at 16:35

Posted by: peter g (2512) 

A glow worm combi

Replied: 3rd Dec 2020 at 11:31

Posted by: tomplum (6968) 

peter check the boiler's guarantee, some of them have a 2 year and even 5 year cover but the thing to watch for, if its not the boiler but something else, they'll hit you with a call out charge, My thoughts are, if its not a TRV,
( thermostatic rad valve } there is nothing else on the system that moves, So it must be something in the boiler,

Replied: 3rd Dec 2020 at 13:30

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (6314)

Is it not air in the pump

Replied: 3rd Dec 2020 at 13:33

Posted by: tomplum (6968) 

on a combi , the pump is in the boiler and it has an auto vent on it, if there was air in it ands it couldn't vent, the boiler would shut down,
you're leaning every day on here Tommy, every day is a skool day,

Replied: 3rd Dec 2020 at 13:45

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (6314)

Well

Me mam had a council bungalow with one of them noisy gas fire things, which had a central heating boiler behind the gas fire, I have spoken about it before, and it was when the gas mon condemned it

He disabled it, which pleased me mum no end because it meant that she had no central heating and gas fire, and he put a bloody big sticker across the front of it, saying something like "condemned"

Anyroad one day a dew months before it was 'condemned' it was making some silly noises, which inclooded a droning noise, so I had a look in the attic and over the top of where the boiler and gas fire were located, there was a pump, with what I would describe as a three foot or so long vertical copper pipe with a bleeding scroo on the top of it, and that was leading from the body of the water pump, and so it appeared that the copper pipe was there to collect air, and when I bled the bloody thing a load of air came out of it, and after that the pump worked alright

Replied: 3rd Dec 2020 at 14:25

Posted by: tomplum (6968) 

Yes Tommy I fully understand how and why that would work, In a bungalow situation , In those dark days, manufacturer's of central heating pumps made them all the same and did't allow for bungalows with a lower head of water, Today however they make almost everything, 'smart' ,
The pump in your Mams house was pulling air in because the tank for the heating was low and the pumps then started with a surge,, Todays smart pumps will sense the pressure and pump accordingly so's not to. pull in air, It was clever of you to suss that pipe was purposely made to do that and realize the air,

Replied: 3rd Dec 2020 at 15:59

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (6314)

Tom

On about heads of water, that bungalow had been fitted with a shower, but not an electric one, but one which worked off the hot water tank, which had the header tank in the attic, but another header tank had been fitted at the same height level as the hot water header tank, and it supplied cold water to the shower, and so it was obvious that was done so that the hot and cold water supply to the shower was at the same pressure, and if I had to guess I would say that it had been fitted by the council for a disabled person, and it didn't look that old, so I would say, as a guess that it was fitted in the time frame of late 80s to early 90s
But surely by that time, the council would have been fitting electric showers, which I am sure would have worked out easier, quicker and cheaper to install, the electric supply was only across the other side of the hall from the bathroom.
I thought that it was weird.

Replied: 3rd Dec 2020 at 16:32

Posted by: tomplum (6968) 

It was typical council ( we've always done it this way} minded, clerk of works of the day, I was working in Leigh in 1986 and still fitting gravity hot water systems when, The more modern thinking councils were fitting, pumped circs hot water, a much more efficient system but, Wigan councils owd head clerk of works, was having not of it, They would not allow modern self cleaning fluxes to be used either, we had to used steel wool, which was later found to be a health hazard to a plumbers hands, Come to think, I might put a claim in,

Replied: 3rd Dec 2020 at 17:18

Posted by: firefox (3239)

Replied: 7th Dec 2020 at 08:19

 

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