Rag Brow

I see the first two houses have gone up on Rag Brow, The number of cars parked at the top are causing trouble,

Bentlegs some of the cars belong to the staff or people who are dropping kids off the nursery

just wait till they all go up . talk about a bottleneck , it will be 10 times worse.

Where's Rag Brow?

A49 (Wigan Road) between the dip of Park Brook (Perry Brook) and Rose hill (junction with Eddlestone street) in Bryn/Ashton in Makerfield.

See tom plum's video of it posted on general thread, here

Question :-

Is 'Rag Brow' called 'Rag Brow' because it's the 'brow' on which stood the 'Rag'.

Or, was the 'Rag' called the 'Rag' because it stood on 'Rag Brow'?

It's like the chicken and the egg. Which came first?

Opposite Edmund Collins park.

mortarmillbill gets a ten point penalty for giving an irrelevant answer!

And it is not in Wigan

Nothing new about Wigan Rd/Rose Hill being dangerous, my GGg'dad was 'killed by being run over by a passing omnibus' according to an inquest in 1886

Yes, when the terraced housing was there, it was a nasty blind bend, and drivers giving it some welly to ascend, came accelerating around the bend where the gradient eased. Not uncommon for pedestrians to be struck.

It was a little more complicated than that. He fell out of a carriage that was dropping off two mates when the driver adjusted the position to ensure the 'bus had enough room to pass, according to newspapers' reports of inquest.

I think Mrs Anders, lollipop lady, was knocked down on that very bend!

I take it you're talking about the land thats just been developed for more of the same old houses?. I remember seeing banners up near to where the nursery is campaigning to "save our greenbelt". I thought you couldn't build on greenbelt land?. It doesn't matter what the public want, if they want it they more than like!y get it. People have little say in these matters, sadly, and these bylaws just get ignored as if they never existed, yet if someone tried build a free house in their own garden you have to ask permission. And do people actually care about our environment anyway?. People are too wrapped up in their boring, consumerist-driven lifestyles to be motivated enough to get off their backsides.

That lovely view of the surrounding area to Wigan will be now lost, together with more loss of fields, bringing in congestion as well as more overcrowding. And who's gonna be able to afford these houses? (200k plus if they're detached?). And think each of those houses will have cost about just 80 grand to build, yet they'll be about 200 grand to buy. How's that right?.

Looking at the green belt designated area it seems that part has never been declared green belt. Yes! it appears some green fields will disappear but not green belt. I like to keep tabs on any whiff of green belt mentions as my neighbours and self are in the designated green belt and find it difficult to do as we would want.

Theyre telling you it's not been designated greenbelt, but who makes the rules? certainl not the public. I wouldn't trust the council to tell me the time. If it's not greenbelt, then was were all the banners about saying "save our greenbelt" on them?.

So where is the designated Greenbelt area in Bryn and how far back are those houses going to be built.? all the way to Bolton rd ?.. I don't live there now, but know it well and it sickens me all that beautiful view I grew up with is gone..

Wigan Unitary Development Plan will show all green belt and safeguarded land plus many other things. The maps provided should be viewed along with all reading provided and believe me there is a lot of it

Greenbelt was introduced, by the government, to control development. That's just what they're doing, controlling development by releasing certain greenbelt land where and when it's needed.

I bet that many of those objecting, are living in houses which were built upon what was previously green fields, and hence robbed the existing residents of their views and open space back in the Twentieth Century.

Pulling up the drawbridge: yes/no?

When I whur a kid, Landgate and Bryn estates were being built. Those apart, almost all the space between the through A and B roads was open space. Mostly farmland, but a fair bit of colliery estate, tips and rough grassland which had been previously in industrial use.

It was a pleasant walk from Rag Brow to Brocksteads, High Brooks, Coroner's Nook, Windy Arbour and beyond.

The walk to Carr Mill Dam through the fields was also good.

Fair point priscus...... I agree with all the 'walks', we did some walking back in those days.. A few years ago when I was over, I did the walk we used to do as children going to visit my grandparents.. From Downall Green, up Brocksteds, through Drummers Fields, High Brook to Cox Lump.. was lovely...Lots of lovely walks to do from around Downall Green when I was young...

Its rag brew not brow, those cars are always parked there when nursery is open, nothing to do with the much needed development. Traffic increase will hardly be noticed, theres over 400 houses on bryn estate and meadowcroft but there are only 2 exits from there, there is hardly a trafic jam coming off bryn estate is there?

I'm 74 and I remember as a child, it was called Rag Brow.. Maybe that wasn't posh enough for newcomers and they changed it.. Bit like Smock Ally in North Ashton, when the land was developed, Smock Ally wasn't good enough, so they changed it to Smock Lane...

My dad`s now 93. Born in Finnyaddy Row . He always calls it Rag Brew

We called it Rag Brew, but I think it was merely our way of pronouncing Brow. I am quite happy to spell it as Rag Brow, even though in speech I would say Rag Brew!

Maybe it was the pronunciation then, I just remember Brow..

We seemed to vary pronunciation of vowels in many words.

Old was Owld (As in the bird, followed by'd')

Man was mon

e.g. 'thowldmon'

Died was deed

etc etc

Difficult to recognise in retrospect what was just a Northern variant, from what was a very local variant: an issue argued over on these threads in the past!

Also words such as wom, (home) a quite correct pronunciation, but quite archaic!

Who telt thi thad aft gut Wiggin tear sortuv road whi speykt?

jouell.

Aye, whi whur a reet posh lot at topu Rag Brow/brew.

whi lookt dewn on people livin in council houses!

Are you Polish or a Yugoslav?
Or have you got a cleft lip?

Yes priscus, I remember people, my dad was one, who talked like that.. My Mam was from Haydock, so she talked with a different dialect..

You're basing all of your opinions and assumptions on what you've been told. The fact that the government says they have designated Greenbelt land and will safeguard it, shows people believe their word, yet the government lie on a daily basis. The nonsense about "global warmibg" is climate change, all the talk about "sustainability".

As for more houses, no we don't need more houses. And how much have these houses actually cost to build compared to what they will cost to buy?. Why are people paying £150,000 for a house that likely cost a fraction of that to build? "because its the market value", yet when you take out a loan for say £100,000, that money does not physically exist, it's just digits on a computer screen. And then they charge you interest on that money (that doesn't exist and has no real value), and when you can't pay that mortgage they then take the house off you that does have value.

With all these new house builds in and around Wigan What about the other new builds that we need New schools Dentists Doctors Hospital extensions to name but a fewWe read now of people waiting weeks to see a Doctor or A&E overflowingAlso families who cannot get their kids into their prefered school or having to send one child to a different school than a siblingIts ok to keep building houses but every thing else must keep pace with these homes

Every new house that gets built is immediately occupied.
The people moving into the new houses will produce more people (it's what they do!) and the people they produce will also need houses.
It follows that more houses are needed.

From time to time some of the "original producers" will go to the big house in the sky and their nests will be empty.

Indeed, but it's a fact that the population is rising (with or without the immigrants that we can expect in the coming years!)

I thought birth rate amongst "traditional British families" was on the wane. It is the "newcomers to UK shores" that are bucking the trend.

I disagree on the population increase in the sense that we are overpopulated. That's what the powers that be want people to think so they can bring in all kinds of regulations,laws and taxes, and overtime we'll be like China were you can you only have so many children per family. For those who might not be aware, but there's a thing called Agenda 21. Apparently councils know about it. There's enough land for everyone, you just need to look at certain areas of the country like Scotland where's just remote land and very few people, but it seems the population is being pushed more and more into urban towns cities were all there is are apartments. With rising house prices, the younger post millennial generations only hope of getting a foot on the property ladder is some downsized flat sharing in a 1 or 2 bed high rise flat in a densely populated city.

Regards immigrants, it's obvious to anyone with a thinking, critical brain that all the migrant influx and crisis is deliberately being engineered (no accident), likely to cause outrage and mistrust in the class division and break up a sense of national identity, some say to cause civil unrest.

I was only thinking yesterday that those new houses which are now springing up now on Rag Broo, they will have a bootiful view over towards, Bamfurlong, Platt Wazz and Winter Hill

They'll be able to see as far as the house across the road or as far as the house they can see over the back garden fence!

Some of them may have a nice view but the view from Wigan Road will be gone.

How people afford these houses today with the amount of austerity I don't know. I know people who have to borrow a tenner off relatives towards their shopping or petrol as they don't get paid on time, yet some are living the high life.

Noticed this house for sale in Liverpool rd:
https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/50749248?search_identifier=f51009655fc18beea826824557e8855b

How the other half live. Where do people get their money from in Wigan when there are people struggling?.

People in Wigan get their money from the same places as people from the rest of the country get theirs. There's a lot of money about these days.
And that house is not in Wigan, it's in Ashton in Makerfield.

Someone bought number 35, just down the road from that one, not long ago for £695,000. They've not lived in it yet, but had builders rip it apart and develop it. Madness!

The substantial reworking of number 35 is to cater for a severe disability plus accommodation for carers.

Ashton is part of Wigan, at least I thought so.

I lived in Ashton all my life and I've got to say it must be one of the most anti-social (as in the least community friendly) and snobby places I've lived in (probably not all of it but certainly where you can smell the money coming from the houses near to Skitters). Everyone's got the latest fancy 4x4 on the driveway, houses having extensions, new tiled roofs etc, plenty of money to throw away, yet it's got a very unfriendly vibe about the place and no-one talks or says hello unless you personally know them. On the flipside, I live with my girlfriend now nr st Helens on a council estate full of Scousers and it's a very welcoming place. We have two friendly brothers next door, and when we need to borrow an hammer or whatever they're always there to help, and they often light fires during the day and burn rubbish, but so long as it dosent bother us we're fine with it. Try doing that in Ashton and the neighbours will grass you up to the council.

Let's not forget the interest you pay on your house is legal fraud.

I found this interesting:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pik0pvgxzk

A third of Ashton is in St.Helens.

Two thirds of Ashton is in the Wigan Borough (council)

None of Ashton is in Wigan!

Get to know!


I live not far from Skitters Wood. I haven't got a mortgage, I haven't got new roof tiles and I haven't got a 4 x 4. Well, I've not got a 4 x 4 'on the drive' as you put it. I keep mine on my farm, in Spain!

Ashton is still part of Wigan no matter what anyone says.

You must be the lucky one to have two homes with one in Spai n. Most people I know are almost on the poverty line despite being in full time employment and working their socks off. All these new fancy developments being built with homes costing £200,000 plus are pushing the poorest out, the ones who have lived there for generations. Orrell, Standish, Gathurst, Appley Bridge, Billinge, Parbold (not technically Wigan), and some parts of Ashton are becoming out of reach for the majority of people. Had a look on Zoopla in the Orrell area and saw a period 4 bed semi detached (didn't even have a garage) for £320,000. All because it's in Orrell. If it were in a less sought after area it would be a fraction of that. My cousin used to live in those modern style cottages at the top of Upholland Hill just before the war memorial, and she sold the house about 3 years ago for £220,000. She now lives in Newcast!e in a brand new semi which she bought for £380,000 lol. Were are people their money from?. And she's in her 50s so I don't know how she's got a mortgage at her age, unless she's got that kinda money. Some people are truly rolling in it.

Is Ashton in Makerfield part of Wigan? ...... NO!

Is Ashton in Makerfield part of Wigan Borough? ...... YES!

Is Wigan part of Wigan Borough? ...... YES!

Is Wigan part of Greater Manchester? ...... YES!

Is Wigan part of Manchester? ...... NO!

And I don't have two homes, I have several. But, that doesn't make me lucky. If I'd won them in a draw, maybe, but I didn't!

Who's lucky?

Tonker,
Two thirds of Ashton is NOT in the Wigan Borough (council)

2/3 oìf Ashton-in-Makerfield, yes, but ALL of Ashton (Ward) is in Wigan Borough :-) come on get yer facts right :O)

The whole of sparrow fields is being ìdeveloped .... and they'll be destroying Bryn Rec. too.

And for those like Jouell who remember the walks coming out at Cock's Lump, make the most of it, because a planning app is in to pur warehouses on the land at the M6 junction 25 - all over it - huge warehouses - soul destroying warehouses - I mean what the flip use will they be when they're already complìeting the ones at Florida Farm and are also going to cover all the land around Haydock Island with them ..... and almost double the size of the industrial estate at 3-sisters at Bryn.

Someone also mentioned the traffic danger outside the nursery.

What about the second nursery ? (where the golden ball was - haven't they finished that yet ?

It'll be right next to the new junction for the estate and next to the petrol station and supermarket they're planning

Well said John, at last someone with some sense.

So there's gonna be more warehouses then? that's all we need. More of our fields gone and more soulless concrete buildings just so they can "provide more jobs", the usual stuff the govt and council come out with just to justify it all. If you're lucky to get those jobs and not be one of the many people on zero hour contracts or being forced to go to an interview for a crummy wage slave job you don't want or cant do, then they sanction you if you don't play ball.

Most people, especially the younger people with their iphones up their noses, couldn't give two hoots about greenbelt being destroyed and building new homes that DON'T need building. The ones that'll buy these homes will be the usual disposable income crowd with their new (on finance) SUV, age between 20-40.

Then there's the mass felling of mature trees that they are chopping to make way for the 5G (deadly 5G) transmitters that are gonna be everywhere?. Are we gonna let that happen too?.

It's so sad..All that lovely land gone, all the lovely walks gone.. All the fields where rabbits ran free, sky larks singing their little hearts out as they flew above, all the hedge rows filled with birds nests.. the lovely trees that provided welcome shade after a long walk, gone.. All the lovely nature, gone. The England I knew, is no more..