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Photo-a-Day Archive
Photo-a-Day Archive

Photo-a-Day  (Sunday, 5th May, 2024)

Claremont, Mesnes Street


Claremont, Mesnes Street
Constructed in 1894 for butcher John Henry Green.
The butcher’s business was established by his father James Green who had shops in Scholes, Millgate, Hallgate and Darlington Street.
Green’s Butchers had a stall in the Old Market Hall and then transferred into the New Market Hall when it opened.
The business closed in 2010 after trading in Wigan after 170 years.

Photo: Colin Traynor  (iPhone)
Views: 1,936

Comment by: Helen of Troy on 5th May 2024 at 07:31

A very imposing red brick house. In todays speak it says ' I've made it'
170 years of trading, how many can last that long these days ?
Really good photo Colin.

Comment by: WN6 on 5th May 2024 at 07:33

It’s been a dentist for at least fifty years that I know of. I wonder who were the last private residents?

Comment by: T. D. on 5th May 2024 at 08:27

Fine photo of the butchers building. Never attended this dentist, but I do recall some people referring to Brown's dentist in Wigan as Brown the butcher. The Green family story is interesting and the yellow lines on the corner have been cropped nicely Colin. The facia boards on the Claremont do appear to be in need of some TLC.

Comment by: Irene Roberts on 5th May 2024 at 08:54

A lovely building which I have passed many times; I think my son and his family go to that dentist. I remember Green's Butchers very well in the old Market Hall and I'm sure there are photos of the stall on the Wigan World Album. I'm sure many people remember the big Bull's Head in the old Market Hall. It was high up on the wall over the door which led you into the fruit market. I'm not sure if it belonged to Green's or another butchers, or whether it was just to show where the butchers' stalls were situated.

Comment by: Colin Traynor on 5th May 2024 at 09:14

Dennis / Dave, I read on yesterday’s post your comments regarding adverts popping up.
Some them at a time you might say ‘out of hours’ are quite dubious to say the least. Thanks for the tip.

Comment by: Veronica on 5th May 2024 at 09:24

No doubt about it the area around here was very up market. People who owned these houses were definitely rich people. As a 15 year old I had to run an errand to Wrightington St for Mr Aspinall owner of the Decorating business. His house was just around the corner. A ‘servant’ (to my eyes) answered the door. She was probably a cleaner. They would have needed cleaners for these houses. It would cost millions to build houses like these today. I was always fascinated as to who lived in them. I wonder where the descendants ended up when this was sold off.

Comment by: Colin Traynor on 5th May 2024 at 09:51

Cyril, I took your advice and yesterday went to the 1940’s event at Heskin Hall, very enjoyable and took many pictures, one of the Hall itself I have sent in the hope that it will feature on PAD. I acknowledge that it is just outside of Wigan but close enough to Standish to qualify. Its History is quite fascinating.
I would have gone back today but buses don’t go that way on Sundays

Comment by: A.W. on 5th May 2024 at 09:59

I remember this being my family dentist around 1966, don't know how long it had been a dentist then.

Comment by: Sabrina Tidmarsh on 5th May 2024 at 10:56

My dad says he bets John Henry Green the butcher never had corn flakes for there breakfast.

Comment by: George (Hindley) on 5th May 2024 at 11:07

A bit of a rough area, actually Veronica. Those houses were as cheap as chips back in the 90's.

Comment by: Jack on 5th May 2024 at 11:09

Prior to becoming a dentist, it was a Drs surgery. I can’t remember all the names in the practice,
except Dr France who was my doctor.

Comment by: Veronica on 5th May 2024 at 12:12

I remember all the areas around here and Dicconson Street and Wigan Lane in the glory days of the fifties and sixties. You were somebody if you lived around here. I am sure there’s still some lovely terraced housing in the back streets too. What must it have been like previous to that time with the tree lined streets? On Whit Monday walking from the Market Square we paraded along those streets even as a small child you knew you were somewhere special.

Comment by: Colin Traynor on 5th May 2024 at 13:29

Irene, further my comment this morning regarding the 1940’s event at Heskin Hall, I’ll send you a couple of pictures as I think it would have been just up yours and Peters street.

Comment by: Arthur on 5th May 2024 at 15:28

Doctor Derick Johnson form the 1960s to 1970s practice there too.

Comment by: Colin Traynor on 5th May 2024 at 16:11

Veronica, I do agree, back in those days the area was occupied by professionals such as teachers and doctors but now less so. Many properties converted into bed sits and no longer desirable. In fact a bit seedy.

Comment by: Veronica on 5th May 2024 at 16:42

Yes I am aware of how it is now Colin. But my memories are of how it was not all that long ago in the grand scheme of things. Mind you the town centre has had its day so what’s new! There are still some ordinary terraced housing in those back streets where families still live. I had a walk around a while back. It’s the main streets that have gone to ruin.

Comment by: Cyril on 5th May 2024 at 16:48

I've always known it have been a doctors surgery on the ground floor with a dentists surgery on the upper floor.
Thanks for the information Colin as I hadn't known it had been built for the Green's butchers family, there was at one time a butchers shop on Mesnes Road which also was a Green's.
It's often said that folks previously didn't eat very much meat, but with this house and the one next to the Cherry Garden's which was Mark William's the historians must be telling porkies, because between them they must have sold a lot of produce to have had their own houses built.

Houses around Swinley have never been cheap as chips Alan, and the rough area you're thinking of could be the row of Victorian terraces along Upper Dicconson Street, and the row of Georgian terraces on Dicconson Street which had become flats in the early to mid 1990s. Druggies had then moved into them and wrecking them along with causing mayhem in the nearby streets and park. They were eventually got out with the flats then being renovated for the disabled.

Comment by: Jack on 5th May 2024 at 17:47

Johnie Green lived in Upper Dicconson St.

Comment by: Sir Bob on 5th May 2024 at 19:07

In 1978 that was just a Dentist, not a Doctors, and that was on the ground floor, I know that because I had some Dental Work done there.

Comment by: Ian on 5th May 2024 at 19:33

You are perfectly correct, Cyril.
The Swinley area was regarded as a very respectable working class area of Wigan and terraced houses were valued at higher prices than terraced houses in many other areas of Wigan.
By the way, there were a number of years of my life that I visited this building to attend dental appointments.
It is a very nice building. But, I can't really say the same about the building next door.

Comment by: Cyril on 5th May 2024 at 21:01

I know what you mean Colin, we had lived not far from here for twenty two years, but moved around twenty five years ago, houses were being bought just to be made in flats or HMOs with it being close to the college and not only students but others too as the DHSS would pay their rents. Also a lad could be seen openly drug dealing on Wigan Lane where the shops are and also from a ground floor flat where they'd be dealing from the window, so yes there was and still is a seedy side going on, but then again it is so with other areas too - sadly.
Happy to hear you enjoyed you day at Heskin Hall, we went along some yeas ago, but to the market not an event, we wasn't impressed as the market stalls were not very good at all, though I have been told before that the 1940s events are usually very good, it may well have been Irene.

Comment by: Jack on 6th May 2024 at 19:33

Prior to becoming a dentist, it was a Drs surgery. I can’t remember all the names in the practice,
except Dr France who was my doctor.

Comment by: tuddy on 6th May 2024 at 22:30

I went to that dental practice for years, the dentists were upstairs, and the doctors were downstairs. The dental practice was Chamberlin, Thom, and Walmsley when I first started to go. Mr Thom, (Ian Thom) was my dentist, he saved my teeth. When I was eleven the school dentist said I would loose all my teeth, went to Mr Thom, he only took one out, he did loads of work over a few months, but he saved the rest of my teeth.

Comment by: William Smalley on 9th May 2024 at 09:44

Those substance misusers mentioned earlier, every one a ne'er-do-well who was moved to there from the Hindley area, this was meant so as to rehabilitate them, obviously it did not work out as was the plan. They pleaded to Justices to be allowed to return back home to Hindley, this was granted.

Comment by: winnie on 22nd May 2024 at 16:52

John Henry Green in 1901
1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Claremont, Bridgeman Terrace, Wigan, Lancashire, England John Henry Green Head Married Male 37 1864 Butcher shopkeeper Wigan, Lancashire, England
Margaret Green Wife Married Female 33 1868 - Wigan, Lancashire, England
Richard B Green Son - Male 10 1891 - Wigan, Lancashire, England
Dorothy L Green Daughter - Female 8 1893 - Wigan, Lancashire, England
Marjorie Green Daughter - Female 6 1895 - Wigan, Lancashire, England
Agnes M Green Daughter - Female 4 1897 - Wigan, Lancashire, England
James H Green Brother Single Male 29 1872 Butcher (salesman) Wigan, Lancashire, England
Walter L Green Brother Single Male 24 1877 Butcher's clerk Wigan, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth A Green Sister Single Female 19 1882 - Wigan, Lancashire, England
Dora M Green Sister Single Female 16 1885 - Wigan, Lancashire, England
Emily Rawlinson Servant Single Female 22 1879 Cook (domestic) New Springs, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Rawlinson Servant Single Female 18 1883 Housemaid (domestic) New Springs, Lancashire, England

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