Wigan Album

Thank you Veronica,I love seeing what life was like in days gone by..it would be lovely to just pay a visit for a day without anyone actually seeing you.

Agreed, Maureen. I would love to be an invisible time traveller and walk along there and nip into those shops. I love the clock on the wall....there used to be a clock on the wall over a shop in Platt Bridge when I first lived there in 1971. It must have seemed strange to those people, someone taking their photo, and would probably have involved quite a bit of time and equipment, unlike today's phone-cameras!

Although I said a ‘selection’ of shops it looks like 2 shoe/ clog shops and a butchers with a pub on the end. But who knows what is outside the photo.

Veronica B
Do you know where the shops would have been. Between the Millstone and Mab’s Cross ?

No I don’t know Philip I was wondering if anybody on here would know. I found the photo on the Internet and there was no information apart from
’Wigan Lane’..

Irene, that could have been Bill Foster’s clock repairs, on Walthew Lane. He was on the corner of Elm St.

Veronica, this has got me intrigued. I’ll take a walk down Wigan Lane into town on Wednesday and see what I can find out. I can’t rest when there’s a mystery!

That's the one, B...corner of Elm Street. I'm glad I saw it before the buildings were demolished.

I bet Winnie might come up with something. As a child I only know parts before the Infirmary. That was because I was scared stiff as a patient with a broken arm going there. I was only 5 though.

What is it with wimmin and shops ?

Veronica,I’d be about ten and got my arm trapped in between two gates when the wind blew them..got it fixed at the Infirmary..came home next day playing in school yard ..it was Winter slipped on ice and broke the other…I could have met you there.LOL.

Ron posted this photo15 years ago, it's item No 4163 and there are comments about the shops and address's.

Veronica, the pub was the Saracen's Head, which with all the shops down to the Millstone pub were demolished in the 1980s to make way for Central Park Way. Going up Wigan Lane and next to the Saracen's was an archway which led to Saracen's Yard where the Cherrycroft garage and Jolley's builders were, also two or more shops carried on after the pub and there was a communal garden with benches for folks to sit and pass the day, Ian who lived up that way long before I did will remember the layout of the shops and businesses etc., far better than I could. The clock and watch repairer I remember being there was Mr Silcock, his first name I think was Bob, Abbot's greengrocery was along there too and a bakery?

Goodness you were in a pickle Maureen..my arm was broken because a little lad was swinging me round with my little delicate arm!
Some things are indelible in your memory…
Thank-you Allan H. Sorry I hadn’t realised it had been posted. Still there may be people who haven’t seen it. I do usually check but not this one.
Ozy that’s why we no longer go to Wigan it’s imprinted in our DNA to going shopping…perhaps it goes back to the Stone Age markets.

Thanks Cyril…I vaguely remember things but when they made Central Park Way it got me confused. I used to go that way when my dad was in hospital and it completely ‘ threw me’ with all the changes.

Didn’t there used to be a ‘Fox and Goose ‘pub around that area..wish I had a little car now,its bugging me.

Don’t get me wrong Veronica , I also went into a shop once …

….Yes I did ! … really !…

But I didn’t turn the occasion into a three day carnival , same as wot some wimmin do .

Blimey ! Just get wot you went for then go wom again . That’s the way I do it .

Thinking about it though … It’s just as well the chancellor doesn’t rely on me going shopping , otherwise the economy would go into freefall within the space of a fortnight .

So just keep on shopping ladies . Don’t take any notice of me .

This country would be in the Old Kent Road without you lot chuckin’ yer old man’s hard earned loot about .

Maureen, yes there was. When I got married in 1974 it was a Saturday morning wedding at The Register Office, (I am not a "church wedding" person). It was foggy and cold, (Peter says it's been foggy ever since!), and we all went to The Fox and Goose at 11. 30 am. It hadn't opened, and my Dad hammered on the door and I was so embarrassed! However, the landlord looked pleased at this unexpected number of customers and welcomed us. But I will never forget my Dad banging on the door!

That’s a memory to treasure Irene. If the pub is still there it would be lovely to go back every year on your anniversary. Strange how everybody after a wedding ends up at the pub….my wedding reception was at the Alexandra in Whelley then everybody ended up in the Scholes Conservative Club..I don’t know why because there wasn’t a Conservative amongst us.

Thank you Irene,I vaguely remember two young chaps I knew that used to go in there…plus I got married at the registry office..it was cold and foggy too.

I don't think there any shops after the Saracens heading up Wigan Lane. Cyril? Adjacent to the archway was a communal garden and after that was Coppull Lane and then there was another little piece of grassland at the side of Swinley labour club which was facing Duke Street.

Back in the 1960s there was a well known pub run a half. (or a pint if you were really in training)at every pub starting at the Whitesmiths and going up Wigan Lane to finish at the Cherry Gardens. Happy days but I lost count of the umber of pubs.

Probably the brain fog kicking in Rich, I do remember the Saracen's, the arch and the gardens, but I also seem to remember John Roby antiques shops, wasn't they after the pub, or were they before it?

You're right Rich, the clouds are clearing and the two shops I was thinking of was John Roby and Colin Rouffignac, and yes they were before the Saracen's Head. There's a story that Colin tells here: http://www.artbyisherwood.co.uk/2009/03/the-dealers-story/

We used to do the Lane pub crawl ( once ) the other way. Start at the Cherries, then a bit of a walk to the Bellingham. Cross the road to the Bowling Green then over again to the Saracens Head, ( Swinley Labour Club if open optional ), onto the Millstone then the Fox and Goose. Stay on the same side for the Royal Oak before crossing the road for the Griffin and then finally the Whitesmiths. The real boozers carried on into the Town Centre, the rest of us caught the bus back to Standish :)

Not a problem, Cyril. Your'e lucky I remembered!
Also the Cherrycroft garage was accessed via the entry next to the Millstone pub although you could walk through the narrow entance adjacent to the Saracens to get there but you couldn't get a vehicle down there. To drive a vehicle in there you would have use the entrance opposite the top of Scarisbrick Street. The other way in would be to drive into Coppull Lane and take a sharp right turn on to a dirt road which would take you there. Adjacent to the Cherrycroft garage were a couple of really old derelict houses. A local builder used to use them for storing materials sand, cement, bricks, plaster etc.

Name James Jackson
Age in 1911 53
Estimated Birth Year abt 1858
Relation to Head Head
Gender Male
Birth Place Standish, Lancashire, England
Civil parish Wigan
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Street Address 100 Wigan Lane Wigan
Marital Status Married
Occupation Butcher James Jackson 53 Head Butcher
Susan Jackson 38 Wife Married
Thomas Jackson 17 Son Butcher Assistant
Harold Jackson 15 Son Single
William Richardson 21 Nephew House Painter

Name Edward Griffiths
Age in 1911 60
Estimated Birth Year abt 1851
Relation to Head Head
Gender Male
Birth Place Berriew Mouth, Wales
Civil parish Wigan
Street Address 102 Wigan Lanc Wigan
Marital Status Widowed
Occupation Saddler Edward Griffiths 60 Head Saddler
Elizabeth Griffiths 24 Daughter Single

Name Cecily Hesketh
Age in 1911 81
Estimated Birth Year abt 1830
Relation to Head Head
Gender Female
Birth Place Aspull, Wigan
Civil parish Wigan
Street Address 104 Wigan Lane Wigan
Marital Status Widowed Cecily Hesketh 81 Head
Lydia Bannister 48 Daughter Dressmaker
Cecilia Ripley 42 Married Daughter
Ethel Winifred Bannister 20 Grandaughter School Teacher
Charles Thomas Laurence Seddon 4/12 Months Grandson [Born in New York !]
Margaret Halliwell 25 Boarder Drapers Assistant
Edith Halliwell 21 Boarder Stocking Knitter

Name Richard Oliver Atherton
Age in 1911 50
Estimated Birth Year abt 1861
Relation to Head Head
Gender Male
Birth Place Lancashire, England
Civil parish Wigan
Street Address 106 Wigan Lane [Saracens Head ]
Marital Status Married
Occupation Inn Keeper Victualler Richard Oliver Atherton 50 Head Inn Keeper Victualler
Elize Ann Atherton 43 Wife Inn Keeper Victualler
Richard Atherton 25 Son Wheelwright
Florence Atherton 22 Daughter Single
Hannah Alstead 42 Servant
Gertrude Crossby 23 Servant
Miriam Davis 21 Servant
Sarah Ann Sutcliffe Aunt
62
Aunt

Some very interesting information there Winne. Thanks for sharing it.

But something doesn't stack up?
The Saracens Head was at number 106, the butchers was number 100.
Looking at the photo there are no properties ( 102 & 104 ) between the butchers and the pub?
I can only assume that the end building is not the Saracens pub, it maybe building numbers 102 & 104 with the pub being further along?
I must admit the end building does look like a pub.

WN1 Standisher. Thanks for the recall. Many happy memories brought back - I moved away from Wigan in 1970. I would occasionally visit some of these pubs on visits to my parents but never did the crawl again.

I reckon the Building on the far left is now the Basmati restaurant, a couple of the buildings leading up to it are still there but, have had their Frontages re-built so no longer resemble this photo and the Building on the far right has possibly been replaced by a new Apartment Block that I think replaced Cresta Motor Spares ?

You could be onto something there The Dude.
Ive had a good think and a good look.
I think there was a pub / club on Wigan Lane many many years ago which was next to the Millstone but on the other side of the entry which stood in between them. Could that be the building on the far left of the photo?
If so the club / pub would be where the chinese takeaway is now, next door to the Moonlight Indian takeaway.

In 1966 the landlord of the saracens head was mr moseley . I started work with his son michael in the same year

"I think there was a pub / club on Wigan Lane many many years ago which was next to the Millstone but on the other side of the entry which stood in between them."
There was, Rich. I believe, it was a club (some kind of old social club and it may have been "The Bowling Green Club"?) and I'm sure that the floor level was lower than the pavement.
This building was completely renovated and extended (at the back) to become the "Chinese Takeaway", which we always referred to as Jimmy's Chinese and, I believe, the shop next door.
I'm quite sure that the front was completely re-built (new bricks) and a new roof put on, but some of the original building is under this work.

"Could that be the building on the far left of the photo?"
No, it isn't, Rich. The building was not demolished, but renovated. The building was in a similar style (and approx. same roof height) to the shops etc which were in that block.

"I reckon the Building on the far left is now the Basmati restaurant."
This is not the building on the far left. That building on the far left is what we knew as "The Saracen's Head".
All those buildings on the photograph no longer exist as some were demolished in the 1980's (to make land available for the new road/Central Park Way) and one had been demolished or severely re-built years earlier.

I remember Richard Moseley the landlord.
His wife was named Annie.

The building on the left is definitely now the Basmati Restaurant - Ground Floor has had a new frontage but, the three brick arched windows to the 1st Floor are still present today - I had to visit the Moonlight Tandoori to do a reccy the other evening (also visible on Streetview).
The Saracen's Head had square headed windows at 1st Floor (pics elsewhere in this album).

You are obviously extremely convinced it is and you possibly can convince others.
But, could it not also be highly possible that The Saracen's Head building had alterations done?
As you stated, the building which is now the Basmati Restaurant had alterations done (new frontage), couldn't other buildings on Wigan Lane also have had alterations done to be more befitting for a particular period?
By the way, why do you not go under your own name?

I'm going to upload a photo of the pub / club on Wigan Lane many many years ago which was adjacent to the Millstone but on the opposite side of the entry which was Jimmys chinese takeaway which opened in 1974. Prior to that it was used as a storage place for furniture / antiques etc.

In my opinion the building on the top left of this photo is either that or the Saracens pub.
Draw your own conclusions!

Thank you! Rich. I am looking forward to seeing that building (old club), because it has been such a long time.
I have an image that the door was small and low. I also remember that it seemed to have low ceilings and I do remember furniture being inside even though the place was completely closed and locked up. I don't recall any steps up to the door like the Millstone, but quite the opposite as I think you had to step down to the door.
For me, and only for me, I think that the building on the far left is The Saracen's Head. As Rich said, "Draw your own conclusions!".

Ive uploaded it Ian.
I'm just waiting for admin to put it on.

It gets a bit more confusing now!
Ive checked the address's on Wigan Lane and according to the info that
Winnie kindly posted numbers 100 / 106 are on the opposite side of the road and not the buildings shown in the photo above?
number 106 Wigan Lane is the Bowling Green pub, not the Saracens?
The other house numbers listed above are still standing and are situated between Duke Street and the Bowling Green.

Thanks! Rich.

Regarding the above photograph, this is my thoughts on those buildings:

1. Far left is the pub "The Saracen's Head / Saracen's Head".
2. Next door is what became the ironmonger's and then Colin de Rouffignac's coins and antiques.
3. The next building, which is James Jackson's butcher's shop on the above photograph, became an antique's shop, which was there when the ironmonger's was next door.
4. The building with the clock and the two shop windows was either demolished or a large proportion was taken down, because this building was very different in my early life as it was a 3-storey building with the pitched roof being the other way (from the front to the back).
I think, the building was partly taken down, possibly to the first level leaving the ground level (shop area) still standing and then built in a completely different style and with another storey. It would be interesting to know why this was done, especially as the other buildings (ironmonger's, antiques' shop, Abbott's greengrocers...) were not demolished nor even partly demolished at that particular time.
This shop (where the clock is) became two shops and one of those was Sarah Lynn's (bakers / bread and cakes), which was next door to Abbott's.
I think the other shop (next door to the antiques shop) had been a betting shop; possibly, this business moved to the house which was next door to The Millstone and is now part of the pub.
5. To the far right, where there is part of a low roof/some kind of canopy above the two children, is a shop which became Abott's greengrocer's shop.

Rich, you correctly (to the decades I believe you are considering) typed: "I don't think there any shops after the Saracens heading up Wigan Lane. Cyril?"

But, there were some shops ( about three more shops) and they would have been still standing when the above photograph was taken.
I would be very interested to know why these shops were demolished as they were probably of a similar age to the other shops. I also believe, there would have been more shops on the other side of Coppull Lane. There were old terraced houses at the top of Coppull Lane and these were demolished in the 1960's (possibly, circa 1967) and Swinley Labour Club, which later became "The Swinley" was built on the land.

Rich. I have now had a look at the numbers of the buildings and you are perfectly correct. The two houses before "The Bowling Green" pub are: 102 and 104. Therefore, the next building (The Bowling Green) being 106. I also had a look at the number of next door, which was an old barber's shop when I was a kid, and it is 108.

I have had a careful look at many of the places on Wigan Lane and, although many shops do not display a number, I saw that "Peking House" (formerly Jimmy's Chinese) is number 65.
Therefore, working the numbers and not allowing for any changes, this is what they possibly could have been:
67 The Millstone
69 Keith Davies betting shop
71 Abbott's
73 Sarah Lynn's and possibly next door as well (73a and 73b)
75 Antiques' shop / James Jackson's butcher
77 Ironmonger's
79 Saracen's Head

Ian.
The betting shop next to the Millstone was ( I think ) Jimmy Henry's.
Keith Davies may have took it over later prior to moving further down Wigan Lane on the opposite side in the same row as where Lawless paper shop is now. I seem to recall there possibly being a betting shop where the Abbey Lakes bus stop was, in between what was Cresta and the Fox and Goose. I'm not 100% sure? I'm going back to the mid 1960's. Possibly someone can confirm or dismiss that?

Rich, there was definitely a betting shop next door to "The Fox and Goose". I used to often get off the bus at that stop.
I don't go into betting shops and I have never had any interest in them, so I don't really notice the names of these premises, but notice where they are if I know that area.
I know Lawless's newsagents well and before their family owned it, Graham Cunliffe (ex-footballer) owned the shop.

By the way, Rich., next door to the betting shop was a craft shop, this shop was later taken over by Cresta as the shop expanded.

My family owned Cherrycroft Garage, the shop was on Wigan Lane where you could buy various items for your car but I can’t remember the number.