Wigan Album

It doesn't look like Lord Street to me? I'm not saying it isn't though!
I don't remember a gable end facing Wigan Lane in that location?
Where the adverising boards are there where a couple of houses with steps leading up to the door. The fronts of the houses would be facing the Saracens Head pub.

The Gable end to the house and the bill boards would have been in Lord Street

When those got demolished the site would have become Plumpton's petrol garage, Andrew House was later built there with various businesses being in there over the years, now it's a chip shop and an Italian restaurant. On the opposite corner there was another shop with four steps up to the door and folks called it the herbalists, quite a few of the houses around there had these tall cellars with windows because at one time they would have had weavers looms in the cellars, and later when weaving had ceased they would have had the windows bricked up, there was also a row at the side of Penson Street and where Swinley Labour Club was built, there's a photo of that row in the online booklet Molly Penson by Wigan Local History & Heritage Society, scroll down to the photo, but the booklet is interesting to read in its entirety. https://www.wiganlocalhistory.org/articles/molly-penson-the-woman-with-a-mania-for-houses

Is Lord Street still there, and whereabouts on Wigan Lane is it please? It's puzzled me and I was waiting for some comments to see if I could fathom out where it was from them, but I'm lost. I don't remember The Saracens Head. There is mention of a chip shop....would that be The Seven Seas chip shop, as I know someone who works there so I know where that is. Thanks in advance.

Ive got it now. Thanks Ron and Cyril for clearing that up.
This row of houses would be in between Lord Street and Charles Street.
This building is where Papa Luigis Italian restaurant is now situated.
Next door would be the Seven Seas fish and chip shop.
In the 1960's before Plumptons petrol station was built Mortons grocery shop would have been at the end of the row on the left hand side of the photo on the corner of Charles Street.

Irene. Yes, Lord Street is still there and it is between Charles Street and Duke Street. When Saracen's Head was still standing, before they constructed the new road, the pub was opposite the top of Lord Street. The bottom of Lord Street was very close to St. Michael's School.

Cyril, you are correct. I thought that it was where you stated, because it was the only position I could place that house on the corner of Lord Street.
When I was a kid, Plumpton's Petrol Station was there and so those houses had been demolished. But, I remember there were some houses on the other corner area which had steps, similar to the ones in the above photograph, up to the front door; these houses were demolished some decades ago.

Rich, I was trying to think of the joinery shop that was behind these buildings up until the 1990s, was it Berry's?

Irene, that's the chippy Seven Seas, I call it a chippy but it's also a large fish & chip dining restaurant.

Here's a link to a photo of the weaver's cottages on the other side of Wigan Lane:

https://static.s123-cdn-static-d.com/uploads/3625811/normal_65f86bdf5025e.jpg

Thanks to WLH&HS. Though I do recommend that you read through the article by WLH&HS at is a mine of local information.
https://www.wiganlocalhistory.org/articles/molly-penson-the-woman-with-a-mania-for-houses

Cyril, my granddaughter works there, and also has another job, to earn a bit of money whilst studying at college. She is 17 next week and wants driving lessons and I am proud that she is willing to work for her money! Her Dad and her Auntie, (my son and daughter), were just the same!

They learn from their elders Irene my granddaughter is just the same.

Cyril. Yes, it was Berry's.
By the way, I meant the other corner of Lord Street and not the other corner of this block, which would have been on the corner of Charles Street.

Cyril. It was Ralph Berry who had the joinery business.
There was a car wash adjacent to it when Plumptons opened the petrol station on what is now a car park at the rear of the Italian and fish and chip shop..

Thanks Ian & Rich.

Ian, I mentioned the buildings on the opposite corner in one of my earlier posts, there was one that folks called the herbalists as they once sold herbal remedies, I can't recall which it was, but I remember that Hargreaves had a few antique shops along there, and one became a hairdressers. When we got married in 1977 and moved to the area the buildings were still there, but was demolished later.

Cyril, there were a number of antique shops:
There was one halfway down the hill (Standishgate), just past the building Colin posted on PAD not long ago.
There was, of course, Jimmy's antiques in the large house opposite Mab's Cross School.
There was one just past Cresta.
There was one just before The Saracen's Head.
There was one on the other side of Wigan Lane, between Lord Street and Duke Street. I believe, this is the one which became a hairdresser's.

Cyril. In 1977, The Saracen's Head and all the shops up to The Millstone were still standing. One antiques shop was in this section of buildings and was still an antiques shop in 1977; it was the second shop down from The Saracen's Head. These buildings were demolished to make way for the new ring-road.

Ian, yes I do remember John Roby, like you say he had the Wigan Lane shop and also had warehouses down Colin Street and at Union Bridge at Newtown, he was very particular of what he would buy from you as he would export the antiques, though he was a lot fairer in giving you a good price than Collins was. There was Colin de Rouffignac too who bought/sold antiques, but mostly coins, medals and art, Abbots greengrocers which also got demolished too and we bought their house that was on Swinley Road, but then it was daughter's Kathleen and husband Norman Hesketh's, though Kathleen had died by that time and Norman went to live with his son. We lived there for some time before moving, being around 25 years ago now.

If this is at the end of Lord Street it will be almost opposite the Millstone Pub. This pub was extended into the 2 shops next door heading towards Standish when the demolitions took place. The Saracens Head was one casualty. Swinley Labour Club ( now the Swinley ) was once down a side street and ended up on the main road. 1 positive outcome. The antiques dealer I remember in this row was I think called Colin de Rouffinac, excuse the spelling. I once took a coin in there for valuation. My Uncle had unearthed it putting a concrete post into a back garden for a clothes line. Turns out the coin was a dun sovereign and I was offered 200 quid for it there and then, a lot of money at the time. As it wasn't mine to sell I declined. The proprietor was extremely interested as to where the coin had been found.

WN1 Standisher. Yes, it would have been almost opposite The Millstone - the complete block (from Lord Street to Charles Street) would have been opposite the section of buildings from The Millstone to almost The Saracen's Head.
I am not so sure that it was "extended into the 2 shops next door...". I think that it was extended into only one, which had been a betting shop. This was possibly due to the different floor levels. I remember, both The Millstone and the betting shop had about four steps up to the door and so the floor levels inside must have been the same. Whereas, the fruit & veg shop next door to the betting shop was on a lower level and only had one step. Thinking about this, it was strange as I am sure that the roof line was the same on the three. Therefore, the ceiling height must have been different.
I know that the next building along was a completely different structure and it was three-storey high; possibly it was built at a later date.

Cyril & WN1 Standisher. I thought that Colin de Rouffignac only bought/sold coins, medals and some art - I didn't know that he also handled antiques. I remember that he moved into the ironmonger's on Wigan Lane and a short time later moved further down the Lane, closer to Cresta.
By the way, if you are talking about the seventies, 200 quid was indeed a lot of money.
WN1 Standisher, The Swinley is still down, as to say, "a side street", which is Coppull Lane. But, it is closer to the main road and this is because the Council reduced the size of the small park which was between the side of The Swinley Labour Club and Wigan Lane. What now remains of the small park is just a small grass area with some small trees; the dirt pathway which was between the small park and the club is still there but it is tarmac.
Additional information is, Penson Street is now open to Wigan Lane. Before the road change, Penson Street could only be accessed by vehicle from High Street. But, there was a footpath at the end of Penson Street which went to Wigan Lane.

Cyril, it is quite a small world. I was regularly sent to Abbot's greengrocer's for vegetables, such as: carrots, potatoes, onions... I can still remember what the shop looked like and even where many things were placed.
I also believe that Abbot's was demolished and it isn't now part of The Millstone.
If I remember correctly, I would say that The Saracen's Head and five shops were demolished to make way for the new road.
The shop next door to The Saracen's Head was, for a time, Colin de Rouffignac - it had been an ironmonger's. Next door to Colin de Rouffignac was an antiques shop and next door to this was a place that I was never sure what it was as it had no sign and the large shop window was completely covered (inside) with a type of dark plastic. Next door to this was Sarah Lynn's bakers and they had a large bakers at the back; possibly, the whole building, which was three-storey high, belonged to the company. Next door to Sarah Lynn's was Abbot's.

My mother was born in the house next door to this in 1940. There were cow sheds at the back (accessed from Lord Street I think) where my Grandad kept dairy cows, which he used to graze down Coppull Lane.
The Jameson's (my Grandad's mother was a Jameson) kept cows there before him. My Grandad and his family left there around 1942 and ran Whitley Hall Farm for the next 10 years or so.

Any photographs of the farm or Hall?

I think Whitley Hall had been demolished by the time my grandad was working the farm in the 1940's.
I've searched high and low for a photograph of Whitley Farm over the years but found nothing, until a photograph appeared on the Timepix website showing the farm in the background, which I shall try and post.

My grandmother was the last person to live in the house with the steps, next door to The Millstone. She left there in 1969 and it later became Jimmy Henry Betting Office. I remember Abbotts Greengrocers next door with Norman and Olive Hesketh. My gt grandad and his son had the shop next to that which later became Sarah Lynns Bakery. They ran it as a butcher's shop. The antique shop mentioned next to Colin De Rouffignac was Rothwells, and my uncle had Colin's shop as the Iron Monger. My gt uncle and aunt had The Saracen but I'm not sure what years. I have a great connection to that particular row on Wigan Lane.

I remember Dick and Annie Moseley had the Saracens Head in the early 1970's possibly in the 1960's also? Regarding the fruitshop I seem to remember a Freda Abbott but there is no mention of her in the above comments? I remember the ironmongers shop was Rosewoods

This is definitely not the corner of Wigan Lane/Lord St. I lived in the house that wrapped around both roads, with my 4 sisters from 1950s to early 80's when it was demolished. This was 82 Wigan Lane and the front of our house and living room was on Wigan Lane, and the kitchen and 2nd bedroom went into Lord St overlooking Plumptons petrol station. The Saracens Head was opposite our house. To live on "the lane" was epic. The 70's were just the best.

"This is definitely not the corner of Wigan Lane/Lord St."
Are you definitely sure?
I am not sure, because this house could have been in a number of places in and around Wigan. But, if those words "CORNER OF WIGAN LANE AND LORD ST." are correct, then it could only be where I think it once stood.
The photograph is not of the house you and your sisters once lived, Jennifer. That house that you once lived in was on the other corner of Lord Street, which would have been, as you said, opposite The Saracen's Head.
I remember well where you and your sisters lived when you lived on Wigan Lane. I always found it interesting that you had old stone steps up to your front door and if I remember correctly, there were wrought iron safety fencing and handrail.
Weren't there more steps to your front door (about five) than those on the above photograph?
Weren't the steps up to your front door side on (against your house) and had a quite large (about 1.25 sq.m.) standing area in front of the front door?
Was the wrought iron once painted green?
For some reason, I have a picture in my mind of the steps looking like this!

Jennifer, Plumpton's petrol station was built on the land after the houses (possibly, the ones in the photo) and shops between Charles St. and Lord St. were demolished; I think, this was in the early 1960's.
Also, I think that some houses in Lord Street and about five houses in Charles Street were demolished to make more land available for the petrol station and to allow the petrol station to have a parking area and that car wash which was behind the shop and the room for getting a hot drink and just taking a break.
I remember that the first house on the right side of Charles Street (heading down to the chippy on the corner of Wrightington Streeet) was about number eleven.
Do you remember, Plumpton's once had a room which had a drinks machine (for coffee and tea) and a flipper machine in the corner, with a small table and some chairs.

I knew a girl back in the 1970's who lived in the house on the corner of Lord Street / Wigan Lane. The front door was facing the Saracens pub. The side of the house was facing the side of John Plumptons garage which stretched all the way down to Charles Street.
I do recall some wrought iron railings on the side of the house in Lord Street with steps going down, possibly to a cellar? Just above the railings was a billboard that used to advertise what films were being shown at the local cinemas in Wigan.

"To live on "the lane" was epic."
I can only fully agree with your chosen words, Jennifer.
It was an extremely nice part of Wigan to live and a friendly place. There was so much which fulfilled many parents' needs: grocer, greengrocer, butcher, chemist, launderette, newsagents, hairdressers, barbers, car parts' shop, watch/clock repairs' shop, baker, Post Office, ironmonger, baby clothes shop, gent's outfitters, sweetshops, craft shop, petrol station, mechanics' garage, chippy, pubs, social club, dentist, hospital...
It was and still is in easy walking distance of Wigan town centre, Wigan Mesnes Park and Haigh Hall/Plantations.
For those rugby league fans, Central Park was close by and could be easily accessed by going down Douglas Rd. and then down Colin St if you were on foot.

Rich, the Powell family lived in that house; Jennifer is one of the daughters.
I'm sure that Jennifer is going to be interested in who you are, if she doesn't know already.

Rich, your memory serves you well as there were railings and steps at the side with billboards above.
I think that a lot of the shops and houses around there had a cellar. On Wigan Lane, there were a number of those metal grids for safety and to let light through to a cellar window; there were these in front of many houses in the streets, such as: Clifton Street, Scarisbrick Street, Charles
Street...