Photos of Wigan
Photos of Wigan

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Baxters stores
Photo: Harry Wharton
Views: 996
Item #: 32545
Baxters store Parliament St.

Comment by: Philip Gormley. on 23rd June 2020 at 23:02

Smashing pic, taken mid to late-afternoon I should think, and when bedding plants were shown from tomato boxes.

Comment by: Mr X on 24th June 2020 at 09:50

What year was this photograph taken? I never knew Pariament Street in Upholland was that narrow. This is the main road between Wigan and Ormskirk. The buildings on the right must certainly have been demolished and the road widened. And what about those on the left. Baxters shop looks like it is a more modern building.

Comment by: Donald Underwood on 24th June 2020 at 10:54

I remember the Baxter twins,Albert & Arthur, as cricketers at WGS.Later they were Bevin Boys.An older brother,Ben, an Army officer, was tragically drowned in a rowing accident

Comment by: Jarvo on 24th June 2020 at 11:10

Philip: Looking at the angles of shadow, I would say late morning nearing midday...An afternoon picture would show darkness on the both sides of the street. The sun looks high - not low.

Comment by: MickLD on 24th June 2020 at 11:31

Donald Underwood - the Baxters who attended WGS were a different family, and lived in Claude Street, at Halfway House.
The Baxters who had the store in the photo, were the family of Maurice Baxter, who lived in Edgehall Rd, Orrell. He had three sons - Arnold, Lawrence, and Reginald.
They all went into business in their own right in later years. Arnold and Lawrence were both grocers, and Reginald (Reg) used his wartime RAF radar training to set up in TV sales, repair, and rentals.
Reg had his TV shop three doors down from the store, Arnold had his grocers a couple of doors further down, and Lawrence had his shop at Holland Moor.

Comment by: Donald Underwood on 24th June 2020 at 13:36

MickLD Thanks for the correction I have lived for many years under a delusion

Comment by: MickLD on 24th June 2020 at 13:48

Possibly distant cousins Donald, but the family of the 'WGS Baxters' was originally from the Poolstock area, and were miners and millworkers.

Comment by: Philip Gormley. on 24th June 2020 at 14:30

Thanks for your magnetic response Jarvo. I'd based my assumption on Wigan being to the left (East), Skem' to the right (West) and Billinge straight ahead. I'd also realised that the sun is shown quite high, and, since then, that there might have been more shade to come. My recent photo of Parson's Slack (Billinge section) has the sun over to the right and out of shot at roughly 2:15 in the afternoon ('in the afternoon' sounds dandy), so perhaps something more could be had from that in relation to our shady shade. Remember Dingle Belles, and the mini rock-face that the shifted Lyric had revealed? Lo! I must mention a snowy night of '62', in which Eddie and myself trod this road, looking for the fairest of classmates who never came - the things you imagine when finding your way.

Comment by: Norman Latham on 24th June 2020 at 17:51

Remember it well going to my aunt Winnie Gaskell who lived in the house next but one

Comment by: James Hanson on 24th June 2020 at 19:23

Upholland Wigan?

Comment by: Cyril on 24th June 2020 at 19:28

Philip G, I'd say you are right to say afternoon with the sun going over to the west, it must be high in the sky too with the dogs shadow being small, the rear of the shop would be facing towards Winter Hill.
Was that shop at one time Dingle Belles car accessories.

Comment by: Terry on 24th June 2020 at 19:33

There's only one Upholland James Hanson.

Comment by: Philip G. on 24th June 2020 at 22:36

Thanks Cyril. I've had the map out since responding to Jarvo's post and it proves that you and I are on the same, correct, sunlit bearing. I'm not sure if Baxter's handsome building had become Dingle Belle's, but if it hadn't then 'Belles would have been no more than a stone's throw away. Having said that, and despite me having been through 'Belle's side door on only a couple of occasions, I remember its decent car park and Winter Hill-side drop. Drop, eh? I discovered the Netherton Road Flute Band on youtube last week and was amazed at its Drum Major's dazzling, mace twirling skills - he's a Championship winner, and twirls by the name of Dinky. Right then, that brush handle that's propped-up in the corner of mi shed ... .

Comment by: MickLD on 25th June 2020 at 05:21

Cyril and Philip G - yes, the Baxters building did become Dingle Belles in later years.
For many years, it was used as a warehouse by Lord and Sharman, then in the mid 1970s, Dingle Belles car accessories opened in the building. It was a later a car phone/mobile phone shop, before being demolished about ten or fifteen years ago.
Mr X. All the property on the right hand side of the road was demolished after WWII, and the road widened considerably.

Comment by: Philip G. on 25th June 2020 at 09:22

Thanks Mick. Spotted a great photo of the Bull's Head on School Lane (Ted Ray's former home) yesterday, but couldn't make it tally with what lies there now, so I guess that's gone as well. I'm told the building with the pavilion roof had been a Bank.

Comment by: Mick LD on 25th June 2020 at 10:08

Correct re the bank, Philip. A rose garden now stands on that spot.
Re the Bull's Head - it stood on what is now the corner of School Lane and Brooklands Road - a recently built house now stands on the site.
I understand when they were building said house, they uncovered what was left of the old pub cellars.

Comment by: Al. C. on 25th June 2020 at 10:41

James Hanson, UpHolland was historically always "UpHolland Near Wigan". Attempts to make it "UpHolland Skelmersdale" were made in recent years and were largely ignored both by people in UpHolland and Skelmersdale. It still UpHolland near Wigan, or, UpHolland, Wigan to me and will always remain so.

Comment by: Jarvo on 25th June 2020 at 11:23

Looking towards the church you are looking east, not west...

I am correct. It is late morning.

Comment by: karen on 25th June 2020 at 11:33

Name: Maurice Baxter
Gender: Male
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 23 Jan 1890
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 14 Edge Hall Road
Residence Place: Orrell, Lancashire, England
Occupation: Draper Household Members:
Maurice Baxter Draper
Magaret Baxter Unpaid Domestic Duties
Marian Baxter Commercial Clerk & Typist
Arnold Baxter Shop Assistant (Grocers)

Comment by: Philip Gormley. on 25th June 2020 at 11:41

Thanks for the 'lead' to the Bull's Head pub, Mick.

Comment by: Veronica on 25th June 2020 at 12:13

I would love to think my ancestors went in The Bull's Head pub.. It's lovely around the village.

Comment by: Dave on 25th June 2020 at 13:12

I think Up Holland and Dalton came under Wigan council till the boundaries changed, if you look on the old pumphouse near Dalton church a stone lintel says Wigan Urban District Council on it.

Comment by: RON HUNT on 25th June 2020 at 15:00


Comment by: James Hanson on 25th June 2020 at 15:01

As someone above has already pointed out, there’s only one Upholland, and it’s not in anywhere else unless you want to call it Upholland, West Lancashire. It certainly isn’t in Wigan or Saint Helens. Wigan is in Manchester, Upholland is in Lancashire like it’s always been. We are Lancastrians in Upholland, not Mancs.

Comment by: JA on 25th June 2020 at 16:58

Upholland, nr, Wigan, Lancs. the day I was born, still is as far as I'm concerned.

Comment by: Anthony on 25th June 2020 at 17:34

James Hanson - For generations the postal address of UpHolland was UpHolland near Wigan, Lancashire.
For your information, Wigan still is in Lancashire. It is part of the County Palatine of Lancashire. Greater Manchester is NOT a county, nor is Merseyside. They are merely administrative areas within the County Palatine, upon which little empire builders have wrongly bestowed the name 'county'.
I suggest you study the work of Local Government Boundary Commission for England (1972).
You may also care to study Hansard. The question of these administrative areas within Lancashire has been raised in Parliament on more than one occasion, and has always been met with the same answer - they remain in the County Palatine of Lancashire.

Comment by: Philip Gormley. on 25th June 2020 at 18:01

Veronica, there's film, with apt music, of the seminary both inside and out on youtube - 'rum' cubicles, but splendid corridors of mellowed wood. George Carman QC had spent time (for want of better words) there.

Comment by: John Walsh's Mate on 25th June 2020 at 18:01

Although it's not a million miles from Wigan., it isn't "near" to it. It's nearer to Skelmersdale, or Orrell. It's not in Ormskirk either.
I agree with James Hanson, Upholland is in Upholland.

Comment by: Anthony on 25th June 2020 at 18:59

John Walsh's Mate - much of what is now called Skelmersdale used to be UpHolland. The real Skelmersdale (Sandy Lane, Clayton St, etc) is actually 5 miles from UpHolland whereas Wigan is only 4 miles.
Prior to boundary reorganisation, UpHolland was always administered from Wigan, and until the 19th century, was part of Wigan parish, as was Dalton.
A further point to consider is the fact that in the 1960s, when the owner of Ashurst beacon decided to 'gift' the beacon, and the land surrounding it, they gifted it to Wigan Corporation, for the use of the people of Wigan, and the town's outlying districts.

Comment by: Terry on 25th June 2020 at 20:16

John Walsh. Whats Skem got to do with anything. It was only a little village same as Upholland and it was a sight further from Upholland to Skem than from UpHolland to Wigan. Skem only became a town in the last forty odd years and Wigan and Upholland were connected years before that. Beats me why you dragged Orrell into it as well.

Comment by: James Hanson on 25th June 2020 at 21:27

If you want to put it like that, 'administration', Wigan must really be part of Manchester, seeing as how it's administered from there. Wigan is in Manchester, making all Wigan people Mancs. Congratulations.
But we all know Wigan isn't really in Manchester, just like Upholland isn't in Wigan, it's in Upholland.

Hey, while we're on the subject, any Wigan people who were christened in a Wigan church, must have been christened in Liverpool, as all Wigan churches are administered from Liverpool. That means all Wiganers are scoutsers.

I'm happy enough to originate from Lowton, in Lowton, but near Warrington, in Cheshire.

Comment by: fee on 25th June 2020 at 22:45

so am i right in thinking the site of this baxters, became the site of Dingle Bells? The houses behind the boxes are still there.

Comment by: XPat on 25th June 2020 at 23:35

If it wasn’t for our brave men and women , Upholland , like everywhere else , would now be part of the Motherland of Nazi Germany . Albert Spier spent a lot of the remaining years of his life in England , wonder what he would have built in Upholland , Ashurst beacon or Skem?

Comment by: Al. C. on 26th June 2020 at 10:06

James Hanson, you are clearly not familiar with the historic County Palatine Of Lancashire, until 1974 what some people now call Greater Manchester, Merseyside and a huge chunk of the Lake District were administratively part of Lancashire. You do not need to look to hard anywhere round Wigan, "Greater Manchester", "Merseyside" or other places to find people who insist they are from Lancashire and have always been so.

Comment by: Veronica on 26th June 2020 at 13:04

Very true A Lc, I always put Lancs in any addresses I write. Thank you Philip, I have taken note of the Ytube Black Bull, my ancestry goes back to the 1600's with one Peter Catterall and family.

Comment by: XPat on 26th June 2020 at 13:50

If it wasn’t for our brave men and women , Upholland , like everywhere else , would now be part of the Motherland of Nazi Germany . Albert Spier spent a lot of the remaining years of his life in England , wonder what he would have built in Upholland , Ashurst beacon or Skem?

Comment by: Anthony on 26th June 2020 at 15:00

"In correspondence by the Duchy of Lancaster in 1992 and 1996, it confirmed that the newly constituted councils such as Manchester and Merseyside did not affect the duchy and the county palatine of Lancashire or its boundaries, which remain the same as they were in the pre-1888 geographical county."
( Hansard - 2nd February 2015, Vol. 592)
Whether you live in Barrow in Furness or Widnes, you still reside in the County Palatine of Lancaster, no matter what your regional authority calls itself.

Comment by: Cyril on 26th June 2020 at 16:38

Jarvo, are you thinking of Church Street from which you would be somewhat looking easterly, to assist you to get your bearings -over the road from here is where the Lyric Cinema once was.

Comment by: George (Hindley) on 26th June 2020 at 18:03

As far as I understand, the historic Duchy of Lancaster's 'Palatine of Lancashire' (which wasn't only in Lancashire) has been gradually sold off and is now less than 20% of what it was originally. The "County" of Lancashire was, and is, a totally different entity to the 'Palatine of Lancashire' .
The Duchy of Lancaster, nowadays, has more to contend with, like it's investments in companies like Brighthouse and some obscure Off-Licence franchising chain, both of which went bust, at their loss.
The days of old, when knights were bold, is long gone.
Anyway, ask yourself, "what is Lancashire" ? and what is a 'county'?
A county is a division, created for the purpose of administration and tax-collection. Anybody who doesn't pay into that county, isn't in that county.
Wigan hasn't been in Lancashire since the early 20th century. Used to be, but isn't anymore. Upholland WAS in Wigan Parish, but not anymore.
The only connection between Upholland and Wigan, nowadays, is the Royal Mail sorting office.

George (Hindley)

Comment by: MickLD on 26th June 2020 at 19:37

Cyril and Jarvo - Church St and Parliament St run more or less on a North South axis. Looking from this location to the church, you are looking SSE.
The Lyric Cinema was over 200 yards NNW of the location of this photo, opposite the junction of Lafford Lane.

Comment by: Al.C. on 27th June 2020 at 09:52

George (Hindley) you are correct in saying that the Duchy Of Lancaster is a separate issue to the County Palatine. The Duchy refers in effect to property held in trust which provides income for the Queen so it can be in other places as well as Lancashire. The County Palatine refers to the ancient Dukedom of which the Queen is "Duke" or Count Palatine. I don't know where you get the idea that Wigan has not been in Lancashire since the early 20th C. Wigan was a County Borough until 1974 when local government re-organistion took place. Greater Manchester, Merseyside and Cumbria then emerged as administrative areas but the County Palatine as a Dukedom was unchanged. I must say that there is a great deal more than the post office connecting Up Holland with Wigan, Up Holland has always been geographically, socially and historically associated with Wigan, nothing can change that.

Comment by: George (Hindley) on 27th June 2020 at 22:03

Al.C. I didn't say "the Duchy Of Lancaster is a separate issue to the County Palatine". Although it is, but it isn't.
I did say "The "County" of Lancashire was, and is, a totally different entity to the 'Palatine of Lancashire' ", which it was/is/will always be. In that case, 'the queen' doesn't come into it either. The queen is only a figurehead in the present tense.

Wigan hasn't been in Lancashire since it's council joined with Pemberton UDC, in 1906 (?), to become a County Borough, therefore becoming independent of Lancashire control. Out of Lancashire, you could say. (Lancashire being a 'county' and an 'administration area')

The local government re-organisation took place from the early 1950's and concluded in 1972.
Wigan county borough was abolished and the Metropolitan County of Greater Manchester was created out of many local authorities over a large area. This was sub-divided into lesser local authorities, one of which became the Wigan Metropolitan Borough we know now.
All is administrative. All is parliamentary. All is a result of the English civil war and the toppling of the monarchy.
But, let's forget 'government', 'administration', 'church', 'local authority' and 'letters'.
Upholland is not in Wigan. Neither is Hindley or Ince and I live in one, but not the other.

I didn't mention Post Office. I said "The only connection between Upholland and Wigan, nowadays, is the Royal Mail sorting office." and I stand by that.

Comment by: John Walsh's Mate on 28th June 2020 at 14:40

Anthony (up there on 25th June), did you know that Ashurst Beacon is government owned and is now part of West Lancashire Council managed "Beacon Park".
With regard to 'owning' things, did you know that Wigan Council 'own' Wigan and Leigh College in New Delhi, India? Do you reckon Wigan is 'in' New Delhi? or is it that New Delhi is 'in Wigan'?
Upholland is far closer to Skelmersdale than it is to Wigan.
It's cotiguous to Skelmersdale, but not 'in' it. Neither is it 'in Wigan'.

Comment by: Henry on 29th June 2020 at 10:04

Baxters also had a mobile shop used in the area for selling to remote areas.

Comment by: Chris Dickinson on 29th June 2020 at 10:43

There is a lady in her 60s who now lives on Orrell Road, Orrell with her elderly mother. They are surving members of the Baxter family who ran the village store until it closed. I don't know their Christian names, I was told a few years ago by a third party.

Comment by: Chippy Tom on 29th June 2020 at 13:48

Never mind Baxter’s shop, I’m enjoying the argument about where Upholland is lol. It was always in Upholland when we lived there.

Comment by: Albert.S. on 30th June 2020 at 16:50

In the early seventies many changes were made in respect of administrative boundaries. In 1969 all of the County Borough Police Forces were amalgamated into the Lancashire Constabulary.

Comment by: Jarvo on 1st July 2020 at 13:34

I am correct to say that this is late morning. The is sun very high. An afternoon shot would show the street in total shade.

Comment by: John Noakes on 2nd July 2020 at 10:56

One member of the Baxter family left the retail grocery trade and did very well for herself in the TV industry, as the editor of Blue Peter, for 23 years.
She is now retired and has a little dog which she takes for walks. She probably hasn't been to Upholland. Or Wigan.

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