Wigan Album

I passed that pub many times in the 1960s when I belonged to The Powell Children's Library, which was just past it. The days when there were "SILENCE" notices in libraries and you obeyed them. You had cardboard library tickets and a human being stamped your books before it became a "do-it-yourself" task with a machine and a plastic card. I still have my cardboard tickets from our long-lost Abram Library....I can't part with them. I recall when my friend from primary school and I stuck the little "pockets" from a box of After-Eight Mints inside the front covers of my books at home and made cardboard tickets to fit in them. Someone gave us an old ink-pad and a date stamp and we thought we were the bees' knees! Can you imagine children today being thrilled with an old ink-pad?! We spent hours playing "libraries" and the memory is ever-green!

Featured many times Veronica but always generates a good respond from those who have had good time in The Horseshoe like myself. Instantly I thought of The Four Tops on the Jukebox.

I too have been past the pub many times, but never been in, even though architecturally, it was a wonderful looking building.
I once bought a mantle clock from the shop round the corner - the name of which was in my mind a moment ago - but now gone.
We do need a clock and watch mender in Wigan, there was a few around at one time and now you can't find one, and to think that watches and clocks were once made here in the town. https://www.wiganlocalhistory.org/resources/the-clockmakers-and-watchmakers-of-wigan-1650-1850

Among these were six clockmakers from Wigan's Jewish quarter in Wallgate.
https://jscn.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Wolkowisk.pdf

Cyril, when my grandchildren were babies, (they are 15 and 17 next month), their Mum used to put a cd of children's lullabies on very low in their bedroom to lull them to sleep. The first song was about a clock, and the first line was "My face was made in Wigan" and we were always puzzled by that until a friend who is knowledgeable about the history of Wigan told us it was once a clock-making town.

Yes,Maureen will know about the Jewish quarter in Wallgate.I learned about the Wigan clockmaker when working at Wigan Museum,I think there is reference to them in the 'moon under water' !

Irene, I could not resist this from 1968:
Just walk away Irene
You won't see me follow you back home
The empty sidewalks on my block are not the same
You're not to blame
From deep inside the tears that I'm forced to cry
From deep inside the pain that I chose to hide
Just walk away Irene
You won't see me follow you back home
Now as the rain beats down upon my weary eyes
For me it cries

The clock and watch mender shop on Millgate was Davenport's, I had a search and this photo (link below) by Brian Laithwaite gave the answer.
A similar architecture like on the pub also carried on around the corner with the row of shops, I'd never looked up so never saw that it did.
https://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/photo.php?opt=5&id=25253&gallery=scholes&offset=140

Yes Elizabeth, it must have been just last week when I was reading about the. number of Jews that lived in Wallgate and quite a lot lived in Great George St… I came across it by accident and glad I did, it was very interesting, nearly all the cinemas were owned by Jews they had business brains without a doubt.. there was lots more to read, I just might go back and read some more, it’s all history isn’t it.
Re clocks my hubbys cousin was very good at clock repairs, he lived on Darlington St , his name was Brian Farnworth..does anyone remember him I wonder!

I have a vague memory of there being a jukebox in this pub, I only went in once but don’t remember it being a pub.. or have I dreamt it all. I think it must have been Christmas time, I had got a beautiful red velvet dress from Ajax at the top of a Wigan and wore it to go into this building.. there was a blond girl in there who told me in no uncertain terms that she wanted to buy this dress..I quite cockily said …Tough. surely I haven’t dreamt all that.

I'm a bit lost with that, Colin! Obviously I know the song, "Don't Walk Away, Renee", and my name, (said properly), is pronounced Ireenee, , and means "peace",(Irene was the Greek Goddess of Peace). but you only get "Ireen" in Wigan! Funnily enough, my teachers at Ince Central Primary School always called me "Ireen" but at Hindley Grammar School I was called "Ireenee", and, even stranger, there were two of us in the same class called "Irene Griffiths"! You could expect two Ann Smiths or two Susan Jones, but our name was quite an unusual one to be duplicated. Anyway, I am quite happy with the song as long as you don't think I look like Renee of The Cafe Renee in 'Allo 'Allo! LOL! xx

I want to correct myself, re the shop that I bought the red dress from.. I think it was just called Jax. It was known by us teenage girls as Ajax and it stuck somehow.

I'm sure you haven't Maureen ! You have brilliant memory of those times.x

I remember a shop called "Jax" Maureen, so am sure you're right.

Yes,I can remember Mrs Vernon at HAGS always calling a girl in my form,Irene Ralph, 'Irenee'.... must have been the French pronunciation!

A pub I have never set foot inside. Walked past many, many times. People seem to have so many memories of the pub though. It was a grand building .

It's the Greek pronunciation, Elizabeth. "Irene" is Greek and a lot of Greek names end in "Ene", (eg Athene....pronounced "Atheenee"). I think the teachers at HAGS had studied the classics and knew that "Ireenee" was the correct pronunciation, (an example being the actress Irene Handl), but you just don't get that in Wigan! The French pronunciation is Eerenn, which was what I was called in Mrs. Vernon's French classes, when we all had our equivalent French name! Do you remember Mrs. Vernon had two sons? One was Robin but I can't recall the other one's name. If you could get her talking about them, the rest of the lesson went out the window, and we just sat there listening to stories about them!

Irene.. I loved Jax’s clothes,apart from Primark there doesn’t seem to be any nice shops for female clothes..there was a nice one next door but one to Poundland but that’s gone now.

Maureen, I do remember a clock and watch repairers shop being on Darlington Street East, and most likely he was the last repairer in Wigan, wasn't it near to the monumental mason shop? and that too will now have been long gone.

Regarding the Wallgate Jewish quarter, a lot of folks, especially Tonker on the Boards, swear blind that Michael Marks (St Michael and M&S) and him being in Wigan was an urban myth, and yet there are records stating that he lived in Great George Street for a few years, and had a stall in the market and also opened a shop.
https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/grpl-mylearning/resources/m-and-s-making-a-mark/michael_marks-timeline.pdf

Yes,I can remember Mrs Vernon well,if you got her talking about her sons and Criccieth ,she loved it there ! My 'French' name at school was Janine,which I always liked until the character in Eastenders came on the scene.

You are so right Maureen,I can remember Jax shop........and now there aren't really any

Yes Cyril, that was Brian and I believe he was very good
Re M&S I also read that one of them but I’ve forgot which one actually lived for a while at no .23 that’s where I was brought up.. now as for Tonker, he thinks he knows it all , I like him but he doesn’t know everything..there’s an awful lot of history in Wigan isn’t there that we probably don’t know about.. but don’t tell Tonks lol.

The 1891 census lists Michael Marks, his wife Anna and children Simon and Rebecca, living at 152 Great George Street. He was a smallware dealer who was born in Russian Poland.
Simon, educated at Manchester Grammar School,went on to become the boss of M and S.

First pub i had a drink in mid 50s landlord had a parrot on the bar then