Wigan Album

That's a lovely little Atky, Ray. The trailer seems to have a big headboard though! Not many about today.

I take it you drove for Baillie's then Ray ? I'm trying to figure out the location. It could be pretty much anywhere I suppose, but I'll stick my neck out and say somewhere on the A 65, possibly near Settle.

Thanks Ray for this pic, I have fond memories of Robert Baillie's. During my younger days when working for White Star Carriers we would meet Baillie's trucks at Chapel Lane at 3am, tranship Guernsey tomato's for the wholesale markets all over Lancashire. You could hear those Gardner engines coming up Wallgate pulling a full load long before they arrived. Gary, the high headboard was used to hold back the tomato cases, small wooden crates three banded together, stacked so high they could not get under Chapel Lane bridge, roped and sheeted those days. Memories of a bygone age WOW!

Hello Garry,The tall trailer headboard was because of the type of regular work we did. Guernsey Tomatoes were loaded
by hand at Portsmouth,usually about 3000 trays, you needed
that headboard to make sure they travelled well. the destination of the load could be Gateshead, Glasgow,Leeds,
Liverpool.or anywhere in the north of the UK.including Belfast,via Stranraer. Regards, Ray.

Hello Ozymandias, The photo was taken on the A58,between Halifax and Rochdale,Having handballed 3000 trays of Guernsey Tomatoes at Bradford Wholesale Fruit & Veg Market.
The date is summer 1970, No M62, although it was being built
at the time. Baillies depot was in the railway goods yard,
overlooking North Western railway station.The site became MFI Furniture, I think it is now a fitness centre ???
Late 70s,Baillies depot was where Sainsbury is now.

Ray, I imagine it would be an awkward job rolling a sheet out over a load of tomato trays.

Hi Ray, I was a little bit out with my guess evidently, but that's all it was really, a guess. It's a bit difficult to tell from the photo, but is that a forty footer, or a 33. It seems to have twistlocks positioned to take a 20 foot box. I've got a couple of photos of Baillie's wagons from when they were based on the goods yard in Wigan. I'll root them out and put them on here soon. Also, if you look on...Work / Trevor Sutcliffe,.. you'll find a photo with Baillie's depot at Wheatlea taken around 1982. Incidentally, I've been following your posts on TNUK recently.

Regards. Ozy.

Hi JJP, I remember transhipping,very well at Chapel Lane
Jimmy Clark on the Ford Artic Box Van,Arthur Pilkington in
his brand new Albion Clydesdale,with the rain lashing down.

Jimmy,when spreading the sheets on the tomatoes,one had to be careful when planting ones big boots on the trays.

Ozymandias, the trailer was one of 10 brand new 40 ft
Crane Fruehauf spreadaxles. The twistlocks were at 40ft
and 30ft. In addition to the tomato work,we also carried
"Jamaican Producers Bananas" in 30ft ISO containers.
Regarding Baillies truck photos,I would love to see them,
as would some of the Hampshire boys on Trucknet.
Regards to you all. Ray

Ray, if you look wiganworld - Works - White Star Carriers you will see the "Ford D type" I drove on more than one tomato season, I remember Jack, Cheyanne and others, yes there were some very bad weather days but our box vans saved all that rope and sheet. I usually delivered Burnley, Blackburn and Bolton wholesale markets multidrops, smaller quantities, odd time Carlisle also. Nice to have these memories.

Hi JJP, Thanks for you reply. Are you Jimmy Clark that lived
on Woodhouse Lane ??. Do you remember Big Harry, He started at Baillies in 1971,a year after me,and we have remained
good friends ever since. Kind Regards, Ray Smyth.

Hi Ozy,Many thanks for posting the Baillies pictures.
The yard was always very muddy.As I am quite new to Laptops
and anything digital,Is it possible for me to download the
pictures to a "pictures" file/folder ??. Or could you email
it to me at raysmyth@fsmail.net Were you also a transport
driver like me? Regards, Ray Smyth.

Hi Ray, no I'm not Jimmy but he is one of the best drivers I ever worked with back in the late 60s early 70s, a great guy, he taught me a lot. I've not seen him for about 10 years now but he stilled lived off Frog Lane the last I heard, he retired some years ago from Asda. I bumped into him just twice over many year.

I did 44 years behind the wheel for various outfits Ray, before finally arriving at the promised land, but, like yourself, I'm not much use with computers. I'm quite handy with ropes, sheets, chains etc., but computers and other hi-tech devices, definitely not. I never even liked those digital tachos they introduced, preferring instead the old cuckoo clock type, or the toaster model. And as for digicards, don't get me started. However, I'll email them to you if you like, or if you're on Cricket St., I'll bring them down. I've got one two more taken on the goods yard as well. One or two of Connals F88. Didn't they also work out of that yard ? I wonder if the Cheyenne that JJP mentions is Dave Goulding that used to be a driver's mate at Fred Rose's in the 60's ?, or was it some other big lad ?

Regards. Ozy.

is jimmy clark the same man/driver who once worked for bibby transport/clarrington coach and haulage. If he is, he's the same man i use to know at armstrongs in goose green 1970s.

Ey up Ray , how you doing?

Hiya Mark, Are you the Mark onroy from Mid Lancs Labels ??

Bert, yes Jimmy did join Clarrington Coach and Haulage- Bibby's after he left White Star, his latter years on the road were for Asda at Goose Green from were he retired about 2009 ish !. One of the best a fine fellow.

The Alder Heys garage of Clarington Coach and Haulage was originally the site of the haulage contractor Fred Thwaites. My dad drove for them throughout WW2 taking supplies to Cardiff for shipment to the troops overseas.

Ray, I couldn't help but laugh about the copper taking home tomato's, do you remember when the season was coming to an end he also did it with spuds, cabbage, and what ever else was on the move, goodness, the stuff that fell off the back of lorries !!!. Can you still remember the trick of how to get at the tomato's without tearing the paper ?. I think we had better leave it at that or get a bad name matey !!!. Oh I do miss those day's, so much fun to be had.

What we should be talking about is getting these HGVs off our roads and getting goods back on our railways. One train is the equivalence of 100 lorries.

Well said cyril, clap clap.

Cyril, and how do you propose the trains get to your local Asda or Sainsburys?

I have no doubt whatsoever Keith, that what you say about Clarington's yard at Hindley originally being the site of Fred Thwaites operation, is perfectly true, but was it not also the site of JRE Transport at some time during the 60's. The owner, Mr. Entwistle, ( related to Entwistle & Joynt I believe ), lived up Ladies lane near the golf club. Following his untimely death, and the winding up of the company, the bulk of their traffic passed to Pritchett Bros., a company based in Chiswick. Please feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.

Hi Ozzy,

Fred Thwaites started his business at a very young age. He is listed as a motor haulage contractor in the 1925 directory at the age of 21. According to my mother my dad started work there in 1939. I remember going there as a young boy years later and can recall the black painted doors with lettering in gold colour.

In 1954 when I was a t school Clarrington's yard was run by
British Road Services Mr Roby was the manager they used to
work from Heinz At Standish 2or3 of us used to watch the
night trunk every night going up Castle Hill with their
Foden S18 Two Strokes they sounded fantastic pulling hard
up the hill you could still hear them at Westhoughton
BRS used to run AEC mandator artics as well I can still
remember REG numbers I think it was the 1970s when BRS
sold the yard Good memoriesD.C.

Jimmy just like we did back then, railway goods yards.

Problem is Cyril, things have moved on somewhat in recent years, ( or gone backwards, depending on your outlook). The general populace, myself included, have come to expect to have their stuff delivered yesterday. Take online shopping as an example. People don't want their goods standing in a railway siding for days on end, they want it the day after they ordered it, if not sooner. It's an inescapable fact, the railways just can't deliver the standard of service that the modern world demands. And we haven't even touched on the issue of getting the goods from the railhead to the customer. What would you suggest ?, narrow gauge lines down the middle of every road in the country. It's just a pipe dream my friend. It worked in the old world, because the people who inhabited that world had a different mindset, and also, there was no viable alternative, but it'll never work in the modern world I'm afraid. Ever.
Regards. Ozy.

You've got it dead wrong my friend.I don't mean trains ie Warrington to Wigan or Manchester to Liverpool, that would be pointless. What I am saying long haul trains from London to Glasgow, Newcastle to Southampton etc etc. No truck on earth could beat trains for speed and time from that sort of distance. Your saying people want goods yesterday well no truck will beat trains from London to Scotland and you'd need 100 trucks to match the train's carrying capabilities.
I know lorries are very important, but I think there's a place for freight trains today and reduce motorway madness.

AEC never fitted two strokes in Mandator's old boy.

Cyril, You would need a train two and a half miles long to replace 100 of todays lorries.
So you want to replace all of the large lorries with thousands of small three wheeled Scammels, do you?

Cyril, the trains that you are proposing already exist. Stobarts operate them, as do W. H. Malcolm. Stand on the platform at Wigan North Western station any day of the week and you'll see them rolling through, but please don't get the idea that I am anti rail, far from it, I also believe that sending freight by rail is a valid part of an integrated transport system. It's just that the size of this country doesn't really lend itself to the idea of vast freight movements by rail, unlike the USA or Canada for example. After all, London to Glasgow to quote your example is only approximately 400 miles. We aren't talking transcontinental distances here. The loading gauge on Britain's rail network isn't particularly helpful either.. Also, what you appear to be failing to factor into the equation is multiple handling of the freight in question. Unlike road haulage, only very rarely can the railways collect freight at source and deliver it to the customer's door, the system by its very nature just isn't flexible enough. The freight needs to be trans shipped at either end of the operation. A time consuming and costly exercise. This argument has been rumbling on for years and years, and will continue to do so for many more I'm sure. But many people want to see wagons off the roads immediately and freight back on the rails without considering the implications. It just isn't that straightforward I'm afraid. Anyway, at the end of the day, I suppose we'll just have to agree to differ on this one. All the best Cyril.
Regards. Ozy.

Cyril if you went from london to scotland in that Atkinson at its best 40mph empty, it would take you three days.
I agree with you cyril, get the diesel smoke off our roads and get them on our electric trains.

I thought trucks run at 56 mph...never, they all break the law, More like 70mph.

Ozy of course they exist, but we need to get more on our rails. Your missing the point.

Jimmy lad. The average scania car transporter can carry 7 to 10 cars, all depending on size. The average train car transporter can carry 270 cars on 27 carriages. So my quick calculation are an estimated 27 scania car transporters to compete with the one train. I rest my case.

Hasn't this been a great thread for all you truck (lorry) drivers..

Isn't this what Wiganworld is all about, enjoying old pictures of places, people and things that have long ago been consigned to history and for those who look at ww to pass comment whether they agree or not. I am always fascinated by the views of so many people, take Ozy and DC for instance, their use of the spoken word is simply brilliant and they get the points across beautifully. The comments relating to railways I understand also but, in todays fast and furious world rail would not compete. If you ever travel to Dover and see all those Spanish, Dutch, Polish trucks coming off the ferry all carrying fresh produce for the UK how via a rail system could they be delivering Glasgow, leeds, Manchester or Swansea within just hours of arrival ? and before anyone answers that question, yes, I have driven on contract for Freightliners, OCL and Manchester Liners in years gone by, I have experienced long delays waiting for a train to arrive and the offload to start. Many of todays trucks are double decked carrying twice the amount and with modern day engines are quiet, smoke free and fast unlike the poor old truck in this picture which was smoky, slow and extremely difficult to drive. Rail would have to have countless mi££ions spent on it just lifting bridges so that the higher trailers could pass under when piggy backing, sadly our rail network is still largely in Victorian times.

Well said and written JJP you could be a double Justice of the Peace! There are clealy some people with an outstanding command of the English Language with debating skills to match. I confess I do not understand the intricacies of transport issues but the points they put across make it easier to unravel the mysteries. The people you mention could be journalists in up-market newspapers! They could outwit some of the dismal MPs we have at the present time! Give credit where it's due I say!

I am so pleased and greatful for the posts I have received
on this page and the other Robert Baillie Transport thread,particular thanks to Ozy for the 2 photos in Baillies
yard, and JJP for bringing back memories of loading tomatoes
in the wee small hours. Thank you, Ray Smyth.

Hi JJP, Have a squint at the "Robert Baillie" Thread
on TrucknetUK on "Th'internet". Some great new pictures
on there. Kind Regards, Ray.

Hi Ray i used to live in Horndean Robert Baille took over Percy Powell late 60s i remember going down the ajq and the camber at night with my dad to load the trailers with fruit for the night trunk all atkis mk1 & 2s do you remember that j reg f86 that later appeared i have picture with them all lined up with the volvo in the line up also do you remember sleeping accommodation round the back of the yard for the night trunk down i lived up that yard as a nipper the good old days.

Paul Stevens...Have a look at www.trucknet.co.uk I started
a Robert Baillie thread on there in December 2015. Let me
know your comments. Ray.