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*UNKNOWN* - Can You Help?

19 Comments

unknown
unknown
Photo: Sylvia Clifford(nee Marsh)
Views: 3,313
Item #: 16966
It could be my Uncle Harry Taplin,he was killed in the 2nd World War.

Comment by: Rev David Long on 1st February 2011 at 08:52

This looks typical of a WW1 photograph, and the uniform, especially the puttees on his legs, looks WW1, too.
We have the following entry in the book I've compiled on those on St Mary's WW1 Memorial Plaque in the church:
106. Taplin, George Edward, Pte. 63001, Royal Army Medical Corps
(Warden of St Mary’s Church), b. Wigan, e. Wigan, 37 Corporation Street, Poolstock
Feb. 1920 Subscriber Mrs G Taplin
Died Saturday 16 June 1917, East Africa
Mem: Morogoro Cem., Tanzania, III A 7 (CL)
(Son Harry, b. 1/6/15 B. 11/7/15, to GE (Collier) & Elizabeth, 37 Corporation Street, Poolstock.
Harry was killed in France, 3 September 1944.)
This may not be Harry's father either. George's cap badge for the RAMC would have been much fancier, with the symbol of the rod and the snake in the centre. He could, however, have joined another regiment first, and then transferred into the RAMC. Maybe an expert on cap badges will come along to help.... By the photographer's name in the right-hand corner it says what I think is Prees Heath, which is in Shropshire, in the junction of the A49 and A41 - where an old airfield fills the triangle between the roads at the junction - so there may have been a military presence there in WW1.

Comment by: Rev David Long on 1st February 2011 at 09:48

Further to my earlier comments - Googling Prees Heath in WW1 reveals it was a major centre for training reserves for most of the local Regiments - including the Manchesters, which many local miners joined. The Reserves were not given their Regimental badges - but wore, as here, a General Service button on their caps. They were often not returned to their original Regiments.
George Taplin was a collier when son Harry was Baptised in June 1915, and, generally, it would also have been recorded that he was in the Forces. So it is probable that he had not yet enlisted at that time.
This photo is of a very young man. It would be unusual for someone so young to have been elected as a Church Warden of a church, but we have no idea how old he was. Do you know what age his wife Elizabeth was when she died? - it might give a clue to George's age in 1917.

Comment by: Phil on 1st February 2011 at 15:54

Lancs BMD shows a George Edward Taplin born Pemberton 1882, which could well be the churchwarden, but the chap in the photo looks a lot younger. Maybe a William Taplin, born 1890? Definitely looks like a WWI photo.

Comment by: Rev David Long on 1st February 2011 at 17:18

The George Edward Taplin you've found was Baptised, as were two of his sisters (1880 and 1888), at the Pemberton Colliery Iron Church, although an earlier (1878) and a later (1891) sister were Baptised at St John's Pemberton. Three infant burials (including one of the above sisters) were recorded at St John's in 1882, 1886, and 1890. Quite an effort on the part of their mother, another Elizabeth. Unfortunately, the Marriage Registers online don't go far enough for us to see whether your George married an Elizabeth.
"Our" George wasn't married at St Mary's, but some strong connection must have grown up for him to have risen to be its Churchwarden.

Comment by: Rev David Long on 1st February 2011 at 17:44

Just re-reading Phil's Comment - the William Taplin born in 1890 is perhaps the one recorded as buried at St Johns on 28/6/90, aged 1 hour. Most likely a brother of George Edward. Hard times....

Comment by: Joseph. on 1st February 2011 at 18:49

On his cap he wears a General Service button worn instead of a badge on a red cloth backing, probably of the Manchesters?, but not necessarily, This would indicate he was in the "TR's" a Training Reserve Battalion as they did not wear Regimental Badges on their caps just a button or the Battalion number. Don't forget that WW1 British army kit was also issued to men after WW1 and well into the start of WW2, although I do agree this looks very much like the great war era photos we see, but who knows! I have just noticed he is not wearing the TR shoulder title, so he may be in transition and waiting to join his local Regiment.

Comment by: Helen on 1st February 2011 at 21:33

I think its wonderful that you should go to so much trouble to help with the history of this young man...well done.
I might be in touch Rev Long to see if you can help me with some of my Wigan family history through your church records.

Comment by: Sheryl lB on 2nd February 2011 at 06:45

I wasnt going to comment, but now that someone has brought it up, I thought this may be from era 1915ish, in keeping with a photo of my grandfather's sister, Helen Lewis (see People - Lewis) which is taken with a similar background, possibly in the same studio at around the same time I think 1915ish.

Comment by: Joseph. on 2nd February 2011 at 09:43

The young man could have been in one of these units if he is a Wigan lad.

14th (Reserve) Bn, the Manchester Regiment.
13th (Reserve) Bn, the Lancashire Fusiliers.
11th (Reserve) Bn, the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment.
These Training Reserve units are of the 3rd Reserve Brigade and were located in Brocton, Staffs, up to the end of August 1916.

Comment by: Mick on 2nd February 2011 at 11:27

His tunic would appear to have pleated breast pockets. These were phased out from about 1916 onwards. May help in dating photo

Comment by: Maureen Andrews nee mcGovern on 2nd February 2011 at 18:53

I bet he's looking down now and really enjoying all the fuss people are making...bless.

Comment by: Kath Arkwright on 3rd February 2011 at 01:42

George Edward Taplin married Elizabeth Lyon at St James Poolstock in 1906

Comment by: Rev David Long on 3rd February 2011 at 08:42

Well done, Kath.. we're on our way! Do you have the ages of George and Elizabeth, and their addresses and fathers' names? I guessed the wedding would be at St James', given their address in Corporation Street, beside the church. George also appears on the WW1 Memorial at St James, and Harry is on the WW2 one. Yet there was this very strong connection with St Mary's.

Comment by: Kath Arkwright on 3rd February 2011 at 17:47

I don't have the details of the marriage as I just got the info from UKBMD. However from the 1891 census George's parents were Charles and Elizabeth Taplin. In 1901 George Edward is listed as stepson of John and Elizabeth Sharrock and is an 18y labourer in a coal mine. George Edward and his wife Elizabeth had the following children : Annie 1907, Ethel 1908,Sarah 1909, Charles 1911, George 1913-1914, and Harry 1915 who died in WW11. Elizabeth his wife might have remarried and there is a marriage at St Thomas Bedford 1920 of Elizabeth Taplin and Samuel Lee.The daughters Annie, Ethel and Sarah were all married at St Thomas and St James Poolstock.To connect with the donor of the photograph Sarah Taplin married Fred Marsh in 1933.

Comment by: Rev David Long on 3rd February 2011 at 20:43

This get even more curiouser. Harry's Baptism was at St Mary's. His father is recorded on our WW1 Memorial as "Churchwarden", yet all the other children were presumably Baptised elsewhere. There's obviously a bit of a story here, but I wonder if we'll ever know what it is.
What was the address, Kath, for the 1901 Census record?

Comment by: Kath Arkwright on 4th February 2011 at 01:10

In 1881 the Taplins lived at 2 Off Warrington Road Smithy Brook and in 1891 at 311 Warrington Road Pemberton. Charles died in 1894,his death registered at Chorley as Charles Tapling 49y. Elizabeth married John Sharrock in 1899 either at the Register Office or Registrar attended and she was married as Elizabeth Toppling. In 1901 they lived at Delf House Farm Pemberton. In 1911 George lived at 37 Corporation Street Wigan and his brother Benjamin at 33.

Comment by: Kath Arkwright on 4th February 2011 at 15:01

Elizabeth Lyon was the daughter of William and Elizabeth Lyon who lived at 30 Corporation Street Wigan.She had younger brothers including George who was 4 in 1901. Could he be the young soldier?

Comment by: Stephen Taplin on 6th November 2011 at 22:53

Fascinating to see that this thread is all about my family! George Edward died in 1917 of Malaria in Tanzania in WW1. This photo would appear to be of a younger man, but it certainly looks to be from that era. The Taplin family seem to have started attending services at St Mary's even though they lived near to St James's. Don't know why. For George Edward to be made churchwarden he must have been a regular there for quite some time. Just as a matter of interest, his mother and father came up from Hampshire in 1873/74, presumably looking for regular work. Sadly, after fathering 11 children his Dad Charles seems to have died in Chorley workhouse in 1894, but I haven't got absolute proof.

Comment by: Stephen Taplin on 9th November 2011 at 17:02

Well spotted Sheryl, the background is definitely the same as the one on your 1915 photo, and with the added information from someone else about the tunic being pre-1916 that narrows things down a bit. I think the young man may be from the Lyon family.

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