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Battersby   Views: 1072
RAF WW2   Comments: 42
Photo: TD,.   Item #: 29856  
 
RAF WW2
 
  Peter Battersby of Platt Bridge. RAF WW2.  

 [<< Back] 42 user comment(s) below:-  [Leave a comment]

Comments by irene roberts, 6th November 2017  
What a lovely photo! My maternal grandma was a Battersby, but from Ince.....not a world away from Platt Bridge. I wonder if they were related?

Comments by TD, 7th November 2017  
Irene: Posted on behalf of Bet. Similar to many of his generation, Peter was a very polite gentleman with a heart of gold and I am sure he would have been delighted to have seen your lovely comment, thank you. Similar to your partner, Peter was also a master butcher, Bet is Peters niece and she still wonders if Tizzies girl is related, by the way she attended school at the same time as an Angela Roberts, from Bridge St. Peters father, grandfather and great grandfather all lived in Ince at one time or another, the latter was a mine manager and in the 1860ís the mine manager lived at the end of what is now known as Battersby Street, in the former large house at the top of Petticoat Lane. There are other lines including distant cousins and as your maternal grandma was a Battersby from Ince, it makes for an interesting search, but no confirmation. Peterís ancestors were spread all over the district and his great grandfather came from Hindley. Coincidently across the road from your old school, down Park Road in Hindley is Leyland Park, the parks benefactor John Leyland esq, lived on the estate at the Grange. John Leyland was a gentleman from a family of mill owners and his mother was a Battersby. Wonderful! You could write a book Irene.

Comments by JJP, 7th November 2017  
This weekend we should remember those who gave their lives in two world wars, but we should also give a thought to those like Peter who perhaps were able to return from the war, having given so much that we can live the life we do. What would it have been like if the lads and lasses who joined the armed services had not achieved what they did.-- Not forgetting all those who gave 'their all' in more recent conflicts. I get great pleasure looking around market stalls that sell cards and old pics, sadly a lot of old pics like this do not bear the name of the person and are probably now long forgotten. ' GREAT PHOTOGRAPH'

Comments by irene roberts, 7th November 2017  
Thankyou so much for those lovely words. How odd that Bet was at school with Peter's, (MY Peter's), sister, Angela. All these Peters are confusing! My Grandma Elizabeth Aspey, (nee Battersby), was in her eighties when I was born in 1952, as my Mam, (Tizzie), was 42 when I was born. All my Aunties and Uncles were a decade older than the Aunties and Uncles of my friends! Elizabeth Battersby's Mother was Mary Heaton before she married my great-granddad. Elizabeth died in 1953 when I was 10 months old, so I never knew he, but she knew ME, and held me, and I love that thought! Just after her funeral, my Mam was in the house alone and heard a thumping noise coming from upstairs. She wrapped a shawl, (which I still have), around herself, enfolding me in it, and dashed, terrified, out to the yard to await my Auntie Mary's daily visit...."Ee, Polly, mi Mother's upstairs!" she said, (she always called Auntie Mary "Polly), and Auntie Mary, who was afraid of nothing, dashed in to find the dog had got shut in the wardrobe and was thumping his tail on the floor! Tizzie never lived it down!

Comments by Albert., 8th November 2017  
For a short period of time, I worked with Orrell Battersby, in the time office, at Maypole Colliery, He was a very amiable gentleman. Is he any relation?. He lived off Ince Green Lane, over on the council estate, to the left of the L.M.S. railway station.

Comments by TD,, 8th November 2017  
Albert: Yes Peter and Orrell were brothers. Orrell lived with his mother for a while, after she moved from Platt Bridge to Violet St, close to the council estate.

Comments by TD,, 8th November 2017  
JJP: You make a very good point and we should remember all of those who serve in all conflicts. We are encouraged to add as much information as possible when posting photos on WW. Sometimes there is very little to add and at other times it is very easy to go overboard. Fortunately there are people who gain pleasure from viewing the photos and add their own appreciative and encouraging contribution, making the effort worthwhile. Thank you for your kind comments.

Comments by Veronica, 8th November 2017  
Not forgetting those on the Homefront as well and the ones who worked in the munition factories,the mines and the Merchant Seamen. All suffered hardship in one way or another for 6 years of their lives- what a tough lot they were - all doing their bit.

Comments by TD,, 8th November 2017  
Irene: Good story finding the dog in the wardrobe thumping his tail on the floor! You couldn't make it up. Ha!Ha!Thanks for sharing. Was your great grandmother Mary or Margaret of 85 Ince Green Lane?

Comments by DTease, 8th November 2017  
Irene, Elizabeth Battersby was born in 1869. Her father was James Battersby, an Insurance Agent.
She married Henry Aspey 23 Jan 1894 at Christ Church, Ince.
They had at least nine children and your mother, Lizzie was born 05 Feb 1912 (if I am on the right track). All the children were christened at Christ Church, Ince.
Between 1895 and 1912 Elizabeth and Henry lived in various houses on Ince Green Lane, Ince.
Presumably, the Mary Heaton you mention would have been the wife of James Battersby.

Comments by Albert., 8th November 2017  
I don't know what your opinion is T.D. I was only a schoolboy during the war years. In my own opinion, I believe we were also very fortunate that the Americans' joined us in the European conflict, as well as also, being engaged in the battle with the Japanese, where also our armed forces were battling. What a terrific celebration it was on V.E. Day. It seemed a more subdued affair V.J. day. Although everyone was celebrating the total end of the war.

Comments by irene roberts, 8th November 2017  
DTease, most of the facts sound right but my Mam Lizzie was born on 8th February 1911. As far as I know My Mam only had three brothers, Henry, (known as Harry), Jimmy and William, and one sister, Mary. Whether there were any more siblings who didn't survive, I have no idea. My Grandma Elizabeth was getting on when my Mam was born, as my Mam was when I was born. I would be interested to know who the other children were, (if there were more), and what other addresses they lived at.

Comments by irene roberts, 8th November 2017  
TD, I only know my great-grandma was Mary Battersby, nee Heaton. Glad you liked the story of the "ghost" in the wardrobe!

Comments by DTease, 8th November 2017  
Irene, here is a list of the children I found. Four of them died young and are buried in Ince Cemetery.

Children of Henry Aspey and Elizabeth Battersby
all
William born 25 Mar 1895 90 Ince Green Lane
James born 08 Sep 1897 75
Henry born 20 Sep 1899 77
Mary born 16 Apr 1902 85
Lily born ?????? 1904 85
died Sep 1904 Buried Ince Cemetery 07 Sep 1904 C763*
Albert born 23 Nov 1905 85
died Nov 1905 Buried Ince Cemetery 23 Dec 1905 C833*
Walter born 23 Nov 1905 85
died Dec 1905 Buried Ince Cemetery 30 Dec 1905 C82+83*
Sydney born 11 Dec 1906 85
died Aug 1907 Buried Ince Cemetery 08 Aug 1907 C766*
Lizzie born 05 Feb 1912 55 (maybe a typing error)

Elizabeth and Henry are also buried in Ince Cemetery (Grave A192 CofE). James Battersby and his wife Margaret are also buried in the same grave.
If Margaret is James' wife then they may have come from Aspull and been married at St David's Haigh.

Comments by DTease, 8th November 2017  
Irene, this is a copy of your mother's baptism
Baptism: 6 Jun 1912 Christ Church, Ince, Lancashire, England
Lizzie Aspey - [Child] of Henry Aspey & Elizabeth
Born: 5 Feb 1912
Abode: 55 Ince Green Lane
Occupation: Platelayer
Baptised by: R. Whitehead
Register: Baptisms 1905 - 1915, Page 215, Entry 1718
Source: Original Register at Wigan Archives
Bear in mind this will be a copy of the original church entry
and it is not unusual for typing errors to occur.

Comments by irene roberts, 8th November 2017  
DTease, Thankyou SO much! I never knew those Aunties and Uncles existed and I don't think my Mam knew either.....I can hardly believe this! God Bless them all! My Mam Lizzie's birthday was 8th Feb, born 1911, so maybe a typing error. I have got the certificates upstairs and will check on them soon, but had a long day today! Yes, Elizabeth and Henry, my grandparents, are buried with Elizabeth's parents in Ince Cemetery; I know where the grave is and put a pot on at Christmas, even though only Elizabeth knew me until I was 10 months old. If you go on "Street Scenes" you will see 85, Ince Green Lane near the top of the list. Click on it and you will see Elizabeth, Uncle Billy, My Dad Bob as a young man and a baby who is one of my brothers, either Ronald, in which the photo is 1933/4, or Colin, in which the photo will be 1941/2. I still wonder if Peter Battersby is a relative; I would love to think he is. Thankyou again. Irene. xx.

Comments by DTease, 8th November 2017  
You are welcome Irene and I will keep an eye open for any connection between you and Peter.

Comments by TD,, 8th November 2017  
Your party on 8th May 1945 sounds good Albert, I wasnít around and I donít know if Churchill wangled it, but when the Japanese bombed pearl harbour and woke up America, it proved to be fortunate for our people in the long run. Understand those Yanks didnít want to be involved previously and when their GI Joes eventually landed here, I believe they were very popular with a lot of our Ladies, but not with our chaps. They also boasted all the best gear. However on the RAF theme and in my opinion we can safely say there is no doubt the British Spitfire fighter was the best. Americans soon realized and improved their Mustang fighters by fitting them with the same Rolls Royce Merlin engine and the reason America was able to help finish off the Luftwaffe over Europe Ö I did hear the local school children would ask the passing Americans ďAny gum chumĒ

Comments by TD,, 8th November 2017  
Good work DTease, I will do some checks.

Comments by TD,, 9th November 2017  
DTease: ?
Baptism: 23 Aug 1868 Christ Church, Ince, Lancs.
Elizabeth Battersby - [Child] of James Battersby & Margaret
Born: 1 Feb 1868
Abode: Broom Street
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: S Boot Curate
Register: Baptisms 1864 - 1879, Page 84, Entry 666
Source: Original Register at Wigan Archives

Comments by Veronica, 9th November 2017  
How lucky for you Irene - more info for you. Winnie is going to be out of a job!!!

Comments by Albert., 9th November 2017  
JJP. WE owe a great debt of gratitude to all those men, and women of the commonwealth countries, and of those countries, especially the Americans, that came, and gave their lives to preserve freedom, from tyranny, and evil. May each one of them, as well as our own, rest in eternal happiness, and peace. On visiting the British and the allied military cemeteries, in Normandy, I unashamedly shed tears, as I remembered waving, as a schoolboy, to the lorry loads of troops, passing through Wigan, at the latter end of May, 1944 (unknown to anyone then) the battle against fortress Europe, was about to begin. DEO GRATIAS, FOR A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME.

Comments by irene roberts, 9th November 2017  
Thankyou all for your interest and kindness. I have my grandma Elizabeth's birth certificate in front of me. She was born on 1st Feb. 1868 to James Battersby and Margaret Battersby, (formerly Heaton). The address is given as Brown Street, Ince, but isn't too clear and could possibly be Broom Street....mistakes were made in spelling sometimes on those old, hand-written certificates, and the registrar would have written it as he heard it. James, (Elizabeth's father), was a coal-miner when Elizabeth was born.
I also have Elizabeth's Marriage Certificate here when she married my Grandad, Henry Aspey, in January 1894. By that time, her father James, was indeed an Insurance Agent, and Brown Street/Broom Street still not very clearly written. I also have my Mam Lizzie's birth certificate, and she WAS born on 8th Feb. 1911. Many thanks!

Comments by irene roberts, 9th November 2017  
DTease, as my Mam Lizzie WAS born in the 8th Feb, not the 5th as apparently shown on her Christening information, and she WAS born at 85, Ince Green Lane, not 55, as also recorded on her Christening, I feel that the hand-written figures of 5 and 8 were possibly not too clear....those two numbers are easy to mix up if hand- written in a bit of a scribble, as they possibly were. On her birth certificate, her mother is written as Elizabeth Ballersby, as the registrar hasn't crossed the Ts! I imagine that sort of thing happened quite a lot! Thankyou so much for all your help and please let me know if you discover anything further. I am still reeling from discovering Elizabeth had more children than I knew about! x.

Comments by DTease, 9th November 2017  
Irene, here is the record of what I think is James' Marriage to Margaret.
Marriage: 23 Apr 1865 St David, Haigh, Lancashire, England
James Battersby - 22, Collier, Bachelor, Aspull
Margaret Eaton - (X), 21, Spinster, Aspull
Groom's Father: Richard Battersby, Weaver
Bride's Father: John Eaton, Weaver
Witness: John Jolly, (X); Jane Jolly, (X)
Married by Banns by: John Aldworth Incumbent
Register: Marriages 1861 - 1875, Page 61, Entry 122
Source: Original register at Wigan Archives
James and Margaret had nine children of which Elizabeth was the third. Born in Broom St, Ince
In the 1851 census, James was living with his father, Richard in Broom St
In the 1861 census, he is still with his father and mother in Broom St
In the 1871 census, James is now married, living at 60 Broom St and he has had three children but only Elizabeth is in the census.
In the 1881 census, James is living at 259 Manchester Rd and he has six children, Elizabeth, Samuel, John, James, Joseph and Jane.
1891 and James is living at 68 Ince Green Lane with wife Margaret and children, Elizabeth, Samuel, John and Jane.
1901 James and Margaret are now living at 90 Ince Green Lane with Daughter Jessie?
James and Margaret died in 1909. James was buried 26 Jun 1909 and Margaret joined him 30 Dec 1909.

Irene, I believe there is a connection between your family and Peter's family via James' brother John but I haven't worked it through yet.

Comments by DTease, 9th November 2017  
TD, it looks like we are both on the right track.

Comments by TD,, 9th November 2017  
Nice story Albert. Bless them all and God bless America.

This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.
W.S.

Comments by irene roberts, 9th November 2017  
That is amazing.....Margaret is HEATON not EATON on the papers I have but, as I've said, people made mistakes with spellings of names, and, as some people back couldn't read back then, things went unnoticed and uncorrected. My great-Grandma on my Dad's side had to sign with a cross as she couldn't write. Many thanks!

Comments by Albert., 9th November 2017  
T.D. An Inspiring speech made by Henry.V. 25th, October, 1415. Immortalized by William Shakespear's play. Henry.V. Pior to the Battle of Agincourt, 25t, October, 1415. When a far outnumbered English Army, defeated the French.

Comments by . Ozymandias ., 9th November 2017  
And with the utmost respect DT, could I respectfully point out that, according to the Bard of Stratford, Henry V concluded his pre- battle speech by saying that, ( according to Burgundian sources anyway ), the English bowmen could expect to have the two forefingers of their right hands cut off, i.e. amputated, in order that they could never draw a string again. Fortunately, I was born too late to be a longbowman so I was destined to become a wagon driver instead. But the good news is this.... I still retain all of the digits that I acquired at birth, and reluctant though I am to drag this debate into a political quagmire, I'm ecstatically proud to be able to display the unseverred fingers of my right hand to Angela Merkel, Bruxelles, and the rest of the E.U. remain brigade....apologies for speaking my mind, but it has to be done on occasions I'm afraid, and just prior to armistice day seemed to me to be the most appropriate time to make my feelings known.

Regards. Ozy.

Comments by Veronica, 9th November 2017  
Its astounding to think of all the quibbling over severance payments to Europe when so many British lives were lost in its defence during both wars - does that not have any bearing at all...?!

Comments by DTease, 10th November 2017  
Irene, just to finish off here is a rather tenuous connection between Peter Battersby and your family.
Peter had a half sister, Mary Ellen Battersby (same father different mothers) and she married John Laye in 1919. Sadly Mary Ellen died the following year.
John Laye remarried in 1940 to Margaret Battersby nee Daniel and she was the widow of John Battersby.
John Battersby was the son of John Battersby and Elizabeth Goulding and this John was the brother of James Battersby, husband of Margaret Heaton.

Comments by Julie, 10th November 2017  
Albert, JJP, TD. Can I ask for your views regarding the Russians in WW2.
Their actions and contribution. I do find it deeply concerning , this continued lack of entry , when in fact their contribution was absolutely massive as their numbers of recorded dead shows. Why do we praise the Americans so openly , yet ignore , or try and sway away from the huge impact the Russians made. I have mentioned this before on WW. with very little response.
I can only conclude there is a truth racism on WW , Ď I will tell only what is selective to me and the facts I choose Ď. This is wrong! Tell the WHOLE
story! Not doing so denies those that follow. The truth is , without the Russians , BEG argue with me, I believe , without question , we would have lost the war. The lives they saved cannot be measured. If a child read WW about this subject , they would walk away with the knowledge that the British and Americans alone won the war ? I think not!, As TD,
rightly says, the Americans were LATE! Albert, shed a tear for the Russians please! When ever we mention the glorious men and women
who gave the ultimate sacrifice for us, let us , in their honour, tell it how it actually was, NOT , how we would like it be .

Comments by TD,., 10th November 2017  
No worries and stand at ease OZY, one of the team was destined to sign article 50 into law earlier this year and with due respect, also remembered here for personal contribution during conflict. Queen Elizabeth II, Wagon Driver WW2. (Austin K2)

Comments by Veronica, 10th November 2017  
She was Princess Elizabeth at the time and trained as a mechanic and truck driver. Promoted to Honorary Junior Commander 5 months later. I believe she's very good at changing a wheel!

Comments by Poet, 10th November 2017  
Now Yuri's icy bayonet is warm with Fritz's blood,
And Fritz is gassing Tommy in the Flanders mud,
While Tommy lobs the wizzbangs back
He thinks it quite a thing,
That we three lads would not have met
But for Kaiser, Tsar and King.

Comments by TD,., 10th November 2017  
Veronica, correct and she signed the Article 50, 16 Mar 2017.

Comments by Albert., 11th November 2017  
Julie. I appreciate your concern. However in my comment I did refer to all other countries that participated in the destruction of Nazism, and against the Japanese. The U.S.S.R did contribute a massive roll towards a successful final result, and the civilian population suffered massively. (Stalingrad, etc.) There were no graves of Russian soldiers at Normandy, The Russians attacked from the east. Providence on many an occasion was on our side, by the numerous mistakes by the German High Command, especially Hitler.

Comments by TD,., 15th November 2017  
Julie, with respect we have just observed Remembrance Day a memorial day in remembrance for those who served in the common wealth. Not forgetting all those involved in all wars. Germany and Russia have remembrance days at different times of year and there is the European Day of Remembrance for Victims of Stalinism and Nazism, recognized also by America as Black Ribbon Day, coinciding with the anniversary of the Molotov Ribbentrop secret pact. I do know Peter was strafed by enemy aircraft while serving in the desert, but the Russians were not there. I concur with Albert. On occasion I did meet an old comrade of Peters, he was a Liverpudlian character who had served in the merchant Navy in WW2, delivering vital supplies to the Russian people, on what Churchill described as "the worst journey in the world". Peters companion told me he had nine lives, having survived being torpedoed three times on three different ships during the Artic convoys. How they had the courage to return to face the u boats and freezing conditions is remarkable. Churchill had promised ten convoys a week. Alan Gray another veteran also served on the deadly Arctic Convoys which kept the Soviet Union supplied he was recognized with the Ushakov Medal after a visit to his Wigan home by staff from the Russian embassy last year.
Lest we forget, Wigan remembers and our children do have access to available facts. Spasibo. http://www.betanetcafe.co.uk/Wigan%20Remembers.pdf

Comments by Veronica, 15th November 2017  
'The Cruel Sea' by Nicholas Monserrat is a good book to read - re The North Atlantic in the second WW.

 
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