Wigan Album

Somebody would treasure that Ron...I know I would if it were my Grandma or Great Grandma.

Oh what a lovely pic

A beautiful little girl....thank you Ron...cheers!!!

Ron,you always evoke memories with your lovely photos.I remember as a child there was always a pair of boots like these upstairs in the front bedroom together with a small hook on a 6" wire.The hook was for fastening the boots and was placed through one of the eye holes and the the little fastening button pulled through.

I believe Nellie is often a name given to someone named Eleanor or Ellen.

This little tot is so sweet. I wish someone could find who she was.............

I have found 6 Mary Ellen or Ellen Burton's who were born in Wigan between 1853 & 1889..one was born in the district of Pemberton
J Cooper was a photographer in Standishgate, he specialised in ' minature portraits, life size portraits ' Unfortunatley the Nat.Archives don't give any other details about him... incidentally there were at one time 7+ photographers in the town. There is in the archive a listed collection of photos of Wigan & people who lived there which were deposited in the archives in 1979 by S Rasburn.

Helen, thank you for that information - out of pure curiosity I'm interested to know more about J Cooper and when he started up. Looking at some of his Wigan "townscapes" I suspect - but I have no proof - it could be as early as the 1860's. I'm hoping to come "across" him in the Directories now available online. Photography as widely practised only just started up in the early 1850's, although its "invention" was 30 or so years earlier, bit like computers it took many years before "everyone" took them up.

John Cooper was a beer retailer and operated a studio at 15 Harrogate Street before taking over as landlord of the Royal Oak in Standishgate in 1866 and continuing his photography business. He moved to the Green Man,also in Standishgate,in the early 1870s,taking over pub and studio from George Dugdale who moved his studio to Upholland. The next move was to the Harrogate Inn where he stayed until the mid 1890s when he moved to Poolstock and operated solely as a photographer.
His wife Alice was also a photographer and she continued to run the pub and a portrait studio leaving him to become an architectural photographer.

Kath, nice piece of information on J.Cooper

Brilliant Kath. I've searched without any success for the information you've provided - well done and thank you very much indeed.

May be a bit late but the 1911 census shows a 2-year-old Nellie Burton, daughter of Thomas and Alice Burton. Thomas was a blacksmith born in Hindley, but at the time of the census they lived in 8 Barracks, Orrell.

If it is her then the photo would appear to me to be taken about 1910. Quite possible, although I'm not sure it doesn't look a bit more Victorian.

John Cooper died in 1894 and Alice in 1902.In 1901 Alice is the licencee of the Railway Hotel in Dorning St and three daughters and one son John Lindsay Cooper are bar staff.In 1903 photographer John Cooper is listed at 30 Poolstock and in 1911 at 130 Wigan Lane in a sweet shop are Elizabeth and Matilda Cooper and their brother John a photographer.
In 1855 when John Cooper married Alice Lancaster he was a grocer and in 1861 living at 8 Millgate he was a grocer and photographer and he was born in Bury.
In 1871 at the Royal Oak he's just down as a Licenced Victualler but there is a lodger Joseph Hill who is a photographer. He was from Birkenhead and goes back there but reappears as a photographer at 48 Standishgate between 1898 and 1900 when he dies. His son William then has the business Hill and Son 1903-1910.

Thank you once again Kath, you are a mine of information and it's fascinating stuff. Having seen the Public Trade business from the inside and understanding that the Royal Oak was always one of the busiest pubs in Wigan, I find it amazing that John Cooper could find any time for photography at all but your info' that a photographer was living in the pub sort of suggests to me that perhaps Joseph Hill may have been working for John Cooper but this is complete supposition. I don't know if you gave me this info' but in September, 1938, it looks like John's son, John Lindsay Cooper dies aged 64 and is described as Wigan's oldest photographer.

I wonder which of the John Coopers took the architectural photographs?
Money in beer and photography? John left £424 19s in 1894 and Alice £669 10s 4d in 1902. Presumably this was split between all their children and when Elizabeth Ann died in 1912she left £46 1s 10d. John Lindsey Cooper married Maud Ratcliffe in Blackpool in 1916. I

I've been unsuccessfully trying to "pin down" just when the earliest photo John Cooper senior could have taken with his Wigan townscapes - it certainly included the 1870's but earlier I can't establish, although there is an existing one of the Market Place dated 1861 but without an attribution. However since his son was only born in 1894 John must have taken the earlier ones or was it John Cooper aka Joseph Hill who may have been working for him while he attended to the pub - especially since the length of time to take and process photos in those early days was much longer - the tale becomes more mysterious. Thanks again for all the detail Kath.

Sorry made a mistake, John seniors son was born earlier so could have been taking photos in the 1890's. But probably not earlier.

Hi Kath, hope you manage to "see" this, I meant to include it earlier,
£425 in 1894 "translates" into about £47,000 today
£670 in 1902 = £70,000 today and £46 in 1912 = £4,500. There is undoubtedly money in beer and photography providing they are a successful business - the problems occur when they are not!
I have a little more info' on Ted which I can email if interested - let me know - Keith

Yes I am interested in more about Ted Ward.
I wasn't sure about giving to give you more info on Joseph Hill but having read your latest post have decided to inform you! When he was at the Royal Oak in 1871 he was only 19 and so it seems likely that he came to learn from John Cooper who had been a photographer for at least 10 years. After that he was a photographer in Birkenhead,had a child born in Wiltshire and then moved to Bolton before coming back to Wigan by 1891. No will when he died in 1897 and then son William took over the business with his brother James. William died in 1906 and left £457 14s 5d and mother Maria was the executor. Another nice little business!

Joseph Hill was my great Grandfather and Maria Hill was my great Granmother they had a daughter called Agnes who had a child out of we'd lock called Josephine my mother who was given as a baby to Penningtons

I have a photo of a relative labeled Cooper.,----Wigan. I am not sure how to attach it to this thread. I would like some input on dates and etc