Wigan Album

Down at the old Rose&Crown.This looks like a pub with character, in fact it must be bad to have your own Danger sign on a lamp post.
Huyton ales? With nice salmonella pipes, lovely jubly.

Tried to make out the Licensee all I can make out is Margaret ?

My memory is of the shop next door on the right. My mother bought 'rabbit' wool from there in the fifties. I can still see the little old lady who served there,with her white hair in a bun and dressed in black. She would put hank's of wool away until needed. It was very rare to buy the wool all at once. A lovely photo to jog the memory.

Ron: We can only admire Margaret, who ever her maiden name may have been.
She must have been a strong women, to serve ale to miners who were the back bone of the north, but hard men especially when tanked up with ale in Scholes area in a flea pit called the dust bowl, just imagine how many she had to throw out by the scruff of the neck. ""Margaret we salute you."

The surname looks like Goulding

You can see the Barkers Huyton Ales sign in the tiles of the Crofters, or Tapas Bar as it is now.

Where was the dust hole in Scholes. Was it at the top of Platt Lane .

My guess Ron, could it be Goulding?

Hilly, the Dust Hole was immediately opposite Greenhough Street, the shop on the right was Seddon's the other side Waldron's Milliners. There was a dogleg before you turned into Schofield Lane.

The building looks quite good with its fancy lamp. Old black and white photos don't do justice and the frontage looks like stone... Margaret has lace curtains upstairs, the step looks like it's been 'donkey stoned' as usual. Probably called the 'Dust Hole ' because of the pitmen who called in there still covered in coal dust. The shop next door was a really nice shop with a solid counter and glass cases. There was every shop you could think of in Scholes and no need to go 'up town', in fact most people only went on Saturday as a 'day - out'... I was always sent on errands as a child, maybe the fish shop,the butchers,the Post Office, even the tripe shop and Henry's Newsagents for my School Friend comic. It really was a 'village street' in those days , with as many pubs as shops! A very different way of life - I will always extol the virtues of shopping in Scholes as to the bland shopping centres of today.

John.G. John. In the late fifties, and early sixties, I patrolled Scholes often, and do you what?. I just cannot remember one serious violent incident. Then, the bobby was given due respect. I found the folk of Scholes, lovely people.

The Landlady was Margaret Goulding nee Ainscough with her husband Richard who died in the early 1930's. Margaret died in 1940 aged 61, she was living at Fitzadam Street by then.

Viewers my be interested in this article.
I have very fond memories of Scholes. Born in McCormick Street, named after the second parish priest of St Patricks, this in itself made it part of the history of the the township. I describe the area as a township because that was what it was, a separate community in every sense. People had a feeling of belonging to Scholes first and Wigan second.

The majority of men were miners, many women worked in the cotton factories both in Wigan and further afield traveling to local towns by coach , putting hours on to the working day because the pay was slightly better. I remember hearing the knocker up rousing households and not leaving until a response was forthcoming , the lady who filled that role in the streets surrounding my home was Agnes Wynn who charged a shilling a week . Agnes, lived locally, and because of her job, went to bed early, children were instructed not play near her house, she needed her sleep, if she overslept half the parish would miss a days work!

Scholes itself had shops of every sort, so much so that many older people would rarely visit the town centre as almost everything could be sourced locally, from ladies fashions, Vi Almonds, to motor bikes, Millers, we had two cinemas, countless public houses and grocers, a Chinese laundry and a myriad of other businesses. Locals say that if they had put a roof over the street in its heyday, it would have been the first Trafford Centre! Many shops had nicknames, "Pie Joe's "being one, it's a wonder he didn't go bankrupt, I remember going there, sent by neighbours for a meat pie, they would send a large jug with the instruction to fill it with gravy, free in those days. I think the surplus was for use on the Sunday dinner! Another amusing name was "Polly do out", a clogger, it was said she could put a clog iron on a bladder without bursting it! One of the less hygienic shops often had a cat sat on a flitch of bacon. Needless to say most housewives avoided that shop's delights. A temperance bar, though fair to say it wasn't the most frequented of venues. Public houses seemed a more tempting prospect to most. Similarly many of these had colloquial names the two most famous the Dust Hole (Rose and Crown) this establishment was reputed to sell the best pint in the district, and was one of the last ale houses ( licensed to sell beer and porter only) and the Kill and Cure (the Regent) the latter because it was near to Dr Hoey's surgery .

Whilst times were difficult for many the feeling of community was tangible, even though many struggled and had little they would share what they had. Anyone without family who fell ill would be cared for in the neighbourhood. People could leave the door unlocked, in my Mother's case she would leave the rent on the sideboard for collection . I never heard of a house being burgled . When recounting this fact the reply often comes back "there was nothing to steal" on the contrary, every house had a gas meter full of money, talking of which after the gasman had emptied the meter and left the rebate there was unusually spare money in the parish, children armed with shillings bombarding local sweetshops. No deed for ASBOS, ,"I'll tell your mother", or a more a portent "I'll bring Farther Lappin, the respected parish priest of St Patricks, was enough to bring the most unruly youths to book.t

The overwhelming majority of houses were very well kept women would mop the step daily, and woe betide anyone who walked on their labours. Mondays was washing day, few had washing machines, dolly tubs and rubbing boards was the order of the day . It was said that there was a rainbow over Scholes on Mondays! There was great excitement when the first launderette opened, half a crown for a 9lbs wash, the price alas put it out of the reach of many families, an example that would have bought fish and chips twice, in the early 1950s! Every day a different task, bedrooms , baking another day and so forth. Thursday in our house was the day Mother would black lead the Yorkshire Range , I remember the cleaning agents Zebo and Brasso each with its own distinct smell, as had Mansion polish used on well cared for furniture.


I am proud of my background, and wouldn't wish to be reared anywhere other than my beloved, and much maligned Scholes of yesteryear. Maybe you had to be born within the sound of St Catherine's or St Patricks bells to fully appreciate the wonderful atmosphere and sheer goodness of its people. I am often accused of looking back with rose tinted spectacles. I suppose there element truth in that, but better that, than looking back in anger,

Surname Forename Age Place of Death Date Year Notes Grave Cremation Religion
Ainscough
Ainscough Sarah 80 Yrs Scholes 17-Feb 1930 C 503 Non Con
Goulding
Goulding Richard 52 yrs Rose & Crown Inn. Scholes 20-Apr 1933 C 503 Non Con
Goulding Margaret 61 yrs Billinge Hospital 29-Mar 1940 [ 21, Fitzadam St. ] C 503 Non Con

Good story Tom, though St Catharine's Scholes has always been spelt with an A never an E, St Catherine's with an E is in Lowton.

they must of ran the pub after 1911 as no censers with them on it living here

I'm back with you there Tom- we must have passed each other in Scholes on our errands! I remember Agnes Wynn with the big Alsation knocking everybody up and collecting her shilling on Fridays nights. Mam always treated us when the 'Gasman' emptied the meter, she would take us to the first house pictures..I never realised Scholes was looked down on as we lived in a house between teachers on either side! It was only when I grew up - I found that out. But why? There were areas like Scholes all over Wigan!
.. Memorable and happy times...

Albert S: Thank you for your comments Albert, it's like you stated the policeman on the beat was respected.
I worked on Security in Hospitals, and believe me Albert, I had to help police on arrival and we had pitch battles with all manor of patients, or criminals, they had no respect or fear of any one.

I recall a few years ago when I worked at Royal Bolton one of the Porters/Ambulance driver ( ex-policeman) was the hero of the hour as he took a running dive to a very troublesome man causing uproar in Out Patients - he soon got him under control! They have such a lot to put up with these days.

Sorry, Vic, you're wrong. The 'a' in the present spelling of the church's name is a late aberration. It was originally spelled with an 'e'. Witness that it is off St Catherine's Street, for a start....

I like the crisp and controlled manner of your 'Scholes recollections' Veronica. Nicely.

John.G. John. The crux of the matter, at the present time is “ If there is no punishment, then there is no deterrent.”

I do try to keep brief Philip but it is difficult when memories overtake reason! Don't even get me talking about that carrot haired clogger by the name of Polly-Do-Out who could spit nails into clogs and shoes with the greatest of ease! They just don't make em like Polly anymore!@))

Veronica, Your earlier post - I'm back with you there Tom . . . -, has vitality.

It's because we went to St Pat's Philip ... We are all the same from that parish - like a band of brothers/ sisters...Plus Tom has one of the best memory's I have ever come across! ;@)

Although I only lived down the road in Ince, I didn't know Scholes, and I find these reminiscences fascinating. I believe Wallgate was a similar place in the way of being a close-knit community. I would love to walk in that shop next to the pub, Veronica....I envy you your memories of it.

Many of the ladies used to enjoy looking into the window display of the dress shop opposite to the Dust Hole, I believe it was Veronica Almond’s, the name of the dress shop. I do believe there was a barber’s close by, just around the corner, into Greenough Street, there was a tailor’s shop.

Practically every shop in Scholes holds an abiding memory Irene as I am very sure Ince did for you. I like the fact that some 'wag' said if a glass roof was put over the main road in Scholes it would have been the first Trafford Centre - if only It had been possible... :@))
I know some folk get irritated about these memories and holding on to them, but I think it's fair to say that we don't want to rush into a future at our age..it's lovely sharing memories of our youth.
I take a tip from Dylan Thomas when he says:-
"Do not go gentle into that goodnight ,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day,
Rage,rage against the dying light...
Perhaps this forum should be called 'All Our Yesterdays'. We are looking at old photos after all.

Albert, just lower down was Sineys Barbers Shop th tailor you mention was Reg Sutton on the corner was Broughs Dry Cleaners and Hepworth's Chemist ( never called pharmacy in those days) .
S

Albert, I think V Almond's dress shop was almost McCurdy's furniture shop on the corner of Jackson's Square. As Tom Walsh says the barber's was Sineys, where I hated being told to go on my way home from St.George's school since, as was common practice then, kids had to wait until there were no adults waiting before getting their hair cut, no matter how long you had been in there before them. Between Siney's and Jackson Square there was a confectioners, Sandersons, owned by two sisters.

Tom. Thank you for your additional comments. Used the police box, in that location many times.

Somebody once put on W.W.A. How many pubs that where located, from the Shovel and Broom, to the British Legion. They must all have done good business, as they were all there, for a long time.

The pub got its dust hole name because on the otherside of Scholes , at the corner of Greenough Street was the Windmill pub and on windy days "its sails turned and blew the dust into the Rose and Crown".
The dusthole didnt have a gents toilet for many years and its patrons had to cross the road to use the Windmills facilities.

McCurdy's furniture store was where my mother went to replace my grandmother's old fashioned furniture. I recall the sideboard with a mirror, it had two cupboards at the end and drawers in the middle. It was beautiful solid wood. Then a display cabinet was bought and fireside chairs. They lasted years up to the end of their lives. They always went there for any new furniture. It was a well stocked store.

I have a vague recollection of wandering through Scholes one time in the mid to late 60s with my elder brother. We'd come in from the sticks with the intention of buying a budgie I seem to recall, and I assume that we'd been given an address in Scholes to look for.
At this time the area was being demolished although a few of the streets still remained partially intact.
As we passed the half flattened houses, I spotted a sign saying Zulu Street, a name which seemed a little unusual to me at that time, so I pointed it out to my brother saying, " Look yonder Jim, Zulu Street "., to which he responded..... " Aye!, It favvers t'bloody Zulus ave bin an' all ".

So it seems David, though that was around 159 years ago so I doubt anyone who is around today will have known it to be spelled that way, I and I'm sure many others too would know it as St Catharine's. Though with the broad Wigan/Scowse accent there is no audible difference between short a or short e in pronunciation.