Catholic Church

Is it time to shut down Catholic Churches 330 thousand children been found who have been abused.

Why should they be closed here because of what has been happening in France? I know it's happened here, but you can't say all Catholic priests and Clergy are paedophiles, so why?

not has many here.must be bad nearly all Catholic Churches shutting down St Williams an example.We all know who came from there.

Don't get your meaning, St Williams wasn't closed due to any abuse claims.

How do you know.why are they all closing.Church goers are going to be a thing of the past.why.

I believe St. Bills closed due to the lack of priests, one priest, Fr O'Shea was doing three churches at once, St. Bills, St. Pats and St, Johns, something had to give and the diocese decided to put St Pats and St Johns under the parish name of St. William and the church closed.

What a brain dead idea that is!
The Muslims would love it. They’d turn Wigan parish church into a mosque. And St. Anne’s at Beech Hill. Oh., and that one next to the roundabout at Poolstock.

They’d have us all wearing a smock, sandals and a little hat.

And a beard!

if they had taught Religion starting at age around 13 nobody would have belielved it.Try to drum it into you while your a infant.one are two things they said.Fed 5 thousand people with 2 fish and a loaf....Ten commandments all been broken. Turned back the sea.What a load of crap.Thats only for starters.

It takes an educated mind to understand religion.

"What a brain dead idea that is!
The Muslims would love it. They’d turn Wigan parish church into a mosque. And St. Anne’s at Beech Hill. Oh., and that one next to the roundabout at Poolstock.

They’d have us all wearing a smock, sandals and a little hat.

And a beard!"

True words.

Catholic churches are closing for various reasons and abuse isn't one of them.
I agree, abuse within the Catholic church and churches of other denominations too, have occurred.
Lack of congregations and priests and spiraling costs of maintenance are other reasons too.
Albion. Your comments are those of a bigot, in my opinion.
There are members on here who are members of the Catholic Church. I for one find your choice of words distasteful.
By the way Albion. Jesus fed the five thousand with five small barley loaves and two small fishes. If you are going to slag off the Bible, at least take the trouble to get it right.

Seconded, Jathbee.
Well put.

I'll second that also. Brought up RC and still am although not a good one.

I used to attend the church regularly when i lived in Lowton.Mind you it was the church inn on Newton rd.

Boo Gerroff!

Sonlyme. I have attended similar churches like that myself and on many occasions.

Anyroadup, before slating churchmen, take a look through THIS.
Out of the thousands on there, I'd like to bet there's less than half a dozen church men?

it's no use saying daft things like the parish church will end up as a mosque. The fact is that churches close because of lack of a congregation. If you want to save the Parish church or any other then turn up for services on a Sunday. Mosques seem to be well attended

Do you beleive that rubbish Jathbee .Tell it to the familys that are useing foodbanks.you know what they will tell you....You have brainwashed and your an idiot.

jathbee you must admit that the sexual exploitation of girls & boys is very distasteful .look at the magdalen homes in ireland doesnt shine a good light on the church ? .

"...... turn up for services on a Sunday. Mosques seem to be well attended"

Exactly. And there's strength in union. That's where the problem lies.

You won't change the minds of religious people who believe in God no matter how much you try to persuade them it's all rubbish. Maybe they should close the BBC down, after all look who they had on their books and those who have slipped under the radar from there, then we have the politicians, judges, barristers, police, teachers, orphanage staff. The list is endless.

TerryW: I think that's a bit harsh. I think the key word is 'spiritual' and although lots of people don't practise or believe, they do find peace in times of stress by using it in various forms.

When I was young, most schools were Christian, you know, RC, C of E, etc., with prayers in the morning and hymns, psalms. You just went along with it. I think people today have more anger and are less tolerant than those days and that is because they have nothing to fall back on.

In 20 years time this country will be predominantly Islam. Many of us on here won't be around, and this country will slowly go backward as their laws take hold. As my mate said 'God help Britain'!

I don't see where I've said anything "harsh" to be honest.

Just what I thought Tez. It's very special to 'some people' () and to say '...try to persuade them it's all rubbish'.
It's a matter of choice and I just thought calling something so important in some people's lives 'rubbish' was a bit extreme. Try persuading the Muslims that God (or Allah to them) is rubbish and God help you.

I was brought up in the Catholic religion and in all my life have never met a Priest who has done wrong nor any boys who have complained about a priest BUT, I have encountered several Nuns who have caned me and my friends and many more in the name of discipline and respecting others,
At the time I did't like it but, Look at statistics from those years and how many kids went wrong doing compared with today ?

Tommy, you must have deserved it. But look what a nice, polite and a thouroughly good egg you've turned out to be.

yes I have and they persuaded many more that being good is the way to go. Now when they banned corporal punishment, things went bad, So we need to open up the Nuns way of teaching again, The Muzzies reward the baddies for blowing up infidels with a seat at the side of Mohamed,
playing with peoples heads is wrong in both ways but, the catholic way is much better for society

I think you have read my post wrong, Platty. I am not the one saying it's all rubbish, I said others like Albion who are anti religion won't change religious peoples minds by saying it's all rubbish.

I'm RC by the way, Real Catholic.

A lot of problems over here recently after the discovery of lots of bodies of Indigenous children who were forced into schools which in the main were run by the Catholic Church.

Same in Ireland, Broady. Babies and young children found in a mass grave at the former Bon Secours (Nuns) mother and baby home for unmarried girls in Tuam, County Galway. From the 1950's I believe.

tomplum did,nt you go to eddie arrows ? .

Do you beleive that rubbish Jathbee .Tell it to the familys that are useing foodbanks.you know what they will tell you....You have brainwashed and your an idiot.

And you are a rude, bigoted imbecile. No use trying to explain what belief is to someone who can't even spell believe or families.
And can you explain to me what relevance food banks have to with God? It's the people of a godly nature who are running these places of goodness and kindness.
I think we can put the blame for the need of food banks firmly at the feet of those responsible and that is the people who are in charge of this country.
Your reasoning is somewhat confused, to say the least.

Terry W,
I read a report recently that stated 9000 children went missing from Catholic run homes in Ireland in the 20th Century. I am convinced that those who attend Catholic Churches are as appalled, if not more, as the rest of us are. Hard times.

Terry: my apologies, it was albion, I hadn't read through the thread correctly, you were picking him up. So same comment directed at albion.

whups, yea Eddie Arrows was soft compared with the infants skool I went to Birchley infants at the bottom of Billinge and it was run by the Nuns of Greenfields orphanage ,

Platty, apology accepted.

well a priest who got done for child abuse who was in his 90s only a few years ago & his name was murphy was the priest at st oswalds for a spell & one of my next door neighbours who maybe about your age told me years ago about "pop murphy" & none of the boys wanted to go to the church because of him "interfering" with them . now i,m sure that this was rife when you were there ? .

You had to be tough to get through St Josephs of Wallgate..the girls as well as the boys.

I do remember Father murphy and I never heard any bad of him, to me he seemed a decent fellow, He often came round the skool in the RI lesson
( religious instruction) and gave talks on church matters, If he was that way inclined, I never noticed,

he got jailed for it tom . my next door mate was tony duffy & his brothers all knew about pop murphy .they also went to eddie arrows.

I remember Tony Duffy, I was talking to him at Pats funeral, Just goes to show, I'm not very observant,

Religion is the root of most of the evil going on,
I Blame Henry the VIII.

It's people who are the root of evil.

Whups i know one went to ST WILLIAMS..Lived in the same street has me.Has i said church goers are a dying breed that dont want to admit the truth..

I agree that modern living has become less church oriented not helped by the growing number of motorists that have caused the end of Church walking days and festivals but you know what, when death comes close, people start to go more regular in preparation of what might be, Its like they are edging the bet, If there's a better place to go, I wanna be in it,

That'll be Simpson from Bird Street then, don't know if he abused anyone from the area though. He was a teacher before coming a priest at Cardy in Hindley.

Church goers are not a dying breed at all, there are many religious denominations in the UK, Christians, Anglicans, Pentecostals and Orthodox, by Orthodox I mean the The Eastern Orthodox Church, officially the Orthodox Catholic Church, is the second largest Christian church, with approximately 220 million baptised members.

Some ones saying prayers somewhere and visiting their houses of worship.

Albion will be trying to convince us that there are racist priests next.

"Religion is the root of most of the evil going on",

I would be more inclined to say its how certain followers, (generally a very tiny section) of the religion in question choose how to interpret its teachings that is the root of the evil you mention.

it doesnt excuse the abuse tho does it stardelta ? .

Karl Marx got it right. Religion is the opium of the people !

Religion is a tool. Used by 'them men' throughout history!

I went to a catholic school until i was 11years old i asked my dad to take me out & find another school the reason was that on monday morning we had a mass register plus the school register, If i had been to second mass i was caned on the had if i hadn,t been atall i got it on the legs & that is why i rebelled & went to Cansfeild, Never been to church since apart from wedings & funerals,

my old man went the same way bentlegs .

When I went to school I had aspirations to be an actor, but I fell down a trapdoor during a play and realised it was just a stage I was going through.

Platty, who knows, you might well have got a part on a well known itv soap!

I went to St Oswald (now school place) in Ashton and can remember being hit by the nun using a plimsole and my mother going into school to complain because I had red marks on my body days after the event. After we moved we went to Our Ladies and after a run in with the Priest(father O'rouke) we stopped going to mass. Led to believe he liked a tipple or too just like the Vicar at Holy Trinity. I only go to church for weddings/funerals. Neither of my grandsons have been christened and I have never questioned my son or is wife about it.

Lets face it we are all going to the same place when we die.Theres no special place for Church goers.

Albion: how do you know, who came back and told you?

Platty he arose from the dead dont know of anybody else though.

Lazarus of Bethany.

And Terry.

I've never been dead.

More lies yet again.

"Jesus fed the five thousand with five small barley loaves and two small fishes. If you are going to slag off the Bible, at least take the trouble to get it right."

A simple conjuring trick still practiced today. The conjurer hides a fish and a couple of buns behind his back, hidden by his robes. After an hour or so of mumbo jumbo and constant requests for money, he produces the load.

You can see depictions carved in to the walls of ancient Egyptian walls.

All religious buildings should be shut down and their priests/imams arrested for obtaining money under false pretenses.

Fr Ian O'Shea didn't serve three churches, Fr John Johnson was serving SS Mary and John, Fr Ian was Appointed to SS John and Patricks after St William's was closed

Thanks for the update and correcting my mistake, Beep54.

Tell you what... My ex Mrs was of your persuasion... Our daughter went to a c****** school.. That bloody "Good Shepherd" had his hand in my pocket every week... Got rid of her... Got rid of the other bugger too.

Behave.

When I was little the priest used to come around on a Friday night collecting for the church. I'm sure he used to go around town with the proceeds.

Well ....if it's time to shut all Catholic Churches, then it's also time to shut all police stations, all methodist churches, all construction sites and all supermarkets. For if you tallied up the employment of every person to be linked to abuse and pederasty you would see that it is a nasty phenomenon which is not confined to one particular profession. You might also then want to ask the question: ' Is it time to shut down all Royal Palaces."

Agreed..........The need is to focus on the individuals concerned, not the religion or organisation they are part off or represent.

"When I was little the priest used to come around on a Friday night collecting for the church. I'm sure he used to go around town with the proceeds."

Some years back the US franchisees of the catholic church found that on average every single church in America was bringing in half of what it should for the size of its attendance.

They hired a detective agency to check out the churches.

The detectives spent weeks attending dioceses, checking the donations. Sure enough, every week, fifty percent of the plate was disappearing into the priests' pockets. All cash.

What to do? After much confab it was determined that the only remedy was to post private cops at every church door to check out the take. Given the number of church functions, that was a very expensive proposition .

So the church decided to take no action, and kept the thefts as established fact. To this day the Vatiucan accepts that its main salesmen/priests are thieves who steal half of the collection plate every week. Think about that when you plunk down your hard earned cash the next time "father" tells you that you are too stupid to know who should be helped by your donation, and that you should give it to him and he will pass it on to Jesus, Or somebody.

That money should go to hospitals, the sick, the poor, anyone but these peddlers of the one true faith.

(I don't subscribe to the site that stores copies of publications, but if you do, about ten years ago a very lengthy series on stealing at catholic churches appeared in The New Yorker, or possibly N ew York Magazine - I forget which).

The film Philomena with Judy Dench is a true story about looking for the son she lost because of the Catholic Church.

I'm Roman Catholic,but Stardeltas comment is the most sensible...every denomination makes money for themselves..but the poor old Catholic Church gets put through the mill every time.

I watched the film Philomena and was appalled..but there are and always will be very cruel people in this world..atrocities have taken place in boarding Schools that will no doubt come out some day.

We all know that bad things happen in most organisations and the church is no exception, however we can't paint all churches and priests the same colour, it just isn't true. Besides you won't shake peoples faith with your opinions just because yours differs from theirs, if they have faith and believe in whichever God they follow they will follow and believe no matter what. Take our Islamic brethren for instance it would seem their faith is unshakable to them no matter what we think of it, it's the same with the our Christian faiths and the rest. A persons faith isn't up for question no matter how much anyone disagrees with it. Live and let live.

And Amen to that.

Well it is Sunday, Momac.

Here endeth the sermon, can we all now turn to hymn 147 Faith Of Our Fathers.

You can't get through to some people momac.
Wiganread has got it spot on. There are evil and greedy people in all walks of life, including religious groups, royalty etc.
And to call for the closure of the all Catholic churches is a ridiculous answer to an age old problem in all establishments.
You only need to look back as far as Jimmy Saville and his disgusting behaviour. He had the country and worse still the country's children eating out of his hand. The BBC came in for lot of criticism over cover ups but they are still going strong, regardless. The answer doesn't lie in closing the BBC down but making sure these things never happen again.
It's the behaviour of individuals that's at fault, there are many good priest within the different religions, more so than bad ones.

Very well said Jathbee.
And Terry,Faith Of Our Fathers only has to be mentioned and I have tear in my eyes.

Agree 100%

Well said Jathbee,good response to a really stupid,bigoted post!

As Pope Gregory said: "Give me a child when he is nine, and he will be mine forever."

Can anyone tell me why non believers try to make the faithful change their faith..why..when they know they never will..it's the same as meat eaters having a go at non meat eaters..why when it doesn't affect them one iota..why does it bother them so much..
I will never stop believing..and will also never want to eat meat or chicken or any fowl...so just leave folk alone.

Nun

Whacker said.
As Pope Gregory said: "Give me a child when he is nine, and he will be mine forever."
Aristotle also said. "Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man"
What both are suggesting is brain washing, as you are Whacker. Or some may call it moulding.
In my opinion, both Pope Gregory and Aristotle are wrong. Many, many people have rebelled or rejected the teachings of their early years, as did the comedian Dave Alan, because of his experiences of his cruel treatment at the hands of nuns and priests.
I, on the other hand, had no such experiences with the nuns that taught me.
The only one who ever caned the girls at my school was not a nun.
Again, in my opinion, it's individuals who are the problem and not the institution or the establishment.

Immanuel Kant was a real piss-ant
who was very rarely stable.
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
who could think you under the table.

David Hume could out-consume
Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel.
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
who was just as sloshed as Schlegel.

There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach 'ya 'bout the raising of the wrist.
Socrates, himself, was permanently pissed.

John Stuart Mill,
of his own free will,
after half a pint of shandy was particularly ill.
Plato, they say, could stick it away,
half a crate of whiskey every day!

Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle,
And Hobbes was fond of his Dram.
And René Descartes was a drunken fart:
'I drink, therefore I am.'

Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker,
but a bugger when he's pissed.

Trust you to bring it down to the lowest common denominator.

24!

Posted by: momac (11834)

Can anyone tell me why non believers try to make the faithful change their faith..why..when they know they never will..it's the same as meat eaters having a go at non meat eaters..why when it doesn't affect them one iota..why does it bother them so much..
I will never stop believing..and will also never want to eat meat or chicken or any fowl...so just leave folk alone.

Eloquently put dear lady.

Live and let live.

Thank you Terry.

Jokes

I watched a documentary on tv it was titled " THE MIISSING CHILDREN "" Over 9,000 children died in institutions in IRELAND babies of unmarried girls run by the nuns ,thousands illegally adopted,,in TUAM this was brought to light by a Catherine Corless. there are to be around 796 babies lying underneath a playground , this has been going on by the Irish government since 2014 it has taken 5 year for a report to be done ,,and yet still there has not been a full excavation of the site.., a part one has revealed many,many babies bones ( skulls etc ) THE nuns society is called "
"The Congregation of the sisters of BON SECOURS " SAY THEY HAVE GIVEN WHAT RECORDS THEY HAD TO GALWAY COUNTY COUNCIL . IT runs into thousands of mothers never knowing where their babies ended up .. thousands adopted secretly to AMERICA, All the mothers and family that are left want the area's in the school yard to be fully dug up ,,the cost would be about 13 million euros ,the nuns say they will ony give 2.5 million euro's no where near enough.. When one has finished viewing this programme it will break the hardest heart's ,and as usual there is an almighty COVER -UP GOING ON AND YET EVEN TODAY WOMEN CANNOT FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED TO THEIR BABIES THIS IS A TERRIBLIE INDICEMENT AGAINST THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
GB .

A report earlier this year stated that 9000 children died in homes for unmarried mothers in Ireland. Almost all run by the Catholic Church. Lots of bodies of Indigenous children been found this year here in Canada. Again these schools were in the main run by the Catholic Church.

GB..afraid I don't agree it was the Church,it was the ruddy awful nuns and priests who were the evil ones,and just a pity they're all dead to face their sins. Certain occupations throughout history have attracted cruel people..be it Police which has been proved,nurses likewise,abattoir workers,teachers.Jesuit priests all under the umbrella of being caring people etc..the Nun at my
School in charge of us senior girls was a horrible human being ..the Nun over the little ones was just like an angel...it always the little innocents that suffer unfortunately.and I hope the nuns and priests that let any children suffer all burn in hell forever.

MOMAC , GB here maybe i am being a bit too harsh against the catholic church , and i totally agree with your views ,it's to horrible to think this happened just over 60 or so years ago isn't it? I used to work with a belting bloke from N.ireland and he went to school run by the ( are they called fathers ) The facts he told me about the punishments they dealt out if one did something wrong was unbelievable . MOMAC did you watch all the programme ? GB

I certainly did GB..it was heartbreaking,how on earth do people cope with the fact that their little ones have been buried under the playground,it doesn't bear thinking about..and they still haven't dug anywhere to locate the little bodies.why???

GB.even though I'm Catholic it doesn't make me blind as to the goings on in the world..Have you ever read the book' In Gods Name' by David Yallop,if you haven't google it and you'll have an idea what has been going on for years.

I went to a school run by priests and brothers and the only bit of cruelty I witnessed was caused by a lay teacher and not by the clergy.

You really should be referring to the correct church here. It's the 'ROMAN' Catholic church. In so much as the 'Anglican' Catholic churches are not involved (or so you think!)

Anyroadup, al those of you who don't believe 'the story', will you be celebrating Christmas? And, if so, why? Why do you lead a Christian lifestyle if you aren't Christians?

Well, let’s see. What are the alternatives?

As an atheist, I will die and vanish. That OK with me. I accept that as normal. I am pleased that my DNA has been passed on to my children, grandchildren and soon to be greatgrandchild. It has been a great ride and I feel that along the way I helped family and strangers alike.

Best short definition of atheists I have heard, “We don’t believe in gods and goddesses, and we don’t steal.”

What do the superstitious believe? That if they slosh as much money as they possibly can to any religion it will provide them something it cannot deliver, life after death. There is not a scrap of evidence to support this ludicrous claim. They are lying to you. But if it were true, then what do the shaman claim you are entitled to? Why, you will stand in a huge place somewhere over the sky where a god will sit on a golden throne and you, along with the 107 billion people who have died since this world began, will stand singing god’s praises for umpty trillion, trillion, years, eternity in fact. This is a god that apparently needs a lot of praise; check out the Bible. Is that really what you want for yourself and those you love? The church says it is.

But no, Momac and Jathbee, no-one cares what you believe. Faith is by definition the deliberate suppression of common sense, so believe away.

I would, however, like to urge parents not to send their children to churches and mosques and madrassas or for that matter, the Boy Scouts, the Rovers and other venues that provide access to children. Deviates of all sorts infest churches, mosques, cruise ships and “young anything” clubs. Schools are not immune. Five teaches this year in the area where I live, have been arrested on molestation charges. Pedophiles go where the victims can be found.

Children need to be warned early in life. That’s the word we need to spread.

Whacker

If yoo are wrong, and there is a god, then when yoo die, YOO are going to be in't shit then, aren't yoo

Whacker.
No one cares what you believe either, because it's pretty obvious that your cynical, negative attitude leaves no room for any kind of hope in human kind, let alone God. When are you going to realise that God isn't the problem, deviant humans beings are.
But Hey! Crack on. Believers are not blinkered, unlike you. We do know the world is a cesspit of corruption but it's up to us to live the best lives we can and if our belief helps us to do that, that's fine by me.
It makes me wonder why non believers like you are so vehement about us believers. We do not condemn you for your lack of belief, so what is your problem.

I'll bet his kids and grandkids were never denied Easter Eggs, eh.?

Merry Christmas, Whacker!

Eggsactly Tonker.
Those are Christian celebrations of the fact that we believe that Jesus was born, lived, died and rose from the dead. So it's hypocritical to celebrate something that you don't believe in. Jews, Muslims, Hindus and others do not celebrate these religious occasion as they don't believe in the Christian faith. But most others of different denominations do respect the Christian religion as we respect theirs.
I don't ask you to believe but please respect the fact that others do.

He's a real bundle of joy isn't he..

Whacker..I feel heartily sorry for you with all that negativity..I really do.

Don't waste your time folks, church will be open on Sunday and the faithful will attend no matter what.

I know Muslims who celebrate Christmas, they don't celebrate the religious aspect of it, they celebrate the none religious part of it

HELLO MOMAC ,, I will try and look at the book you have kindly told me about , when i have done so i will in time let you know my views ,stay safe ,,
GB/.

Jesus and Mary, his mam, raaaaight, are respected by muslims and both are featured in the qoran. Muslim kids are taught about Jesus in their early years.
They partake in Christmas festivities and Easter in respect for Jesus, but they don't believe the stories.

That's from a muslim, Joe Paki, from Abram (well, Bolton, but he lives in Abram now. Down Park Lane, on t'left!)