Statues

I wonder if Eric Gill's statue of Prospero and Ariel that stands in front of Broadcasting House will be torn down by protesters who have been sexually abused?

If you don't know about Eric Gill he was an artist who molested his two daughters and their dog on a regular basis and had a sexual relationship with his younger sister. The BBC won't remove the statue, then again they allowed Savile to do what he did at the beeb and tried to cover up for him.

Then will the Irish protesters be coming over to tear down the statue of Oliver Cromwell because of what he did there?

If the statue was of Eric Gill I would vote to remove it, but it is a statue by Eric Gill, so it does not glorify him.

It's his work as was Savile's work on TV and his work has been removed.

Take George Formby’s down because of what he did to music!

Plus it looks nothing like him.

It's bloody awful, Broady.

From Guido Fawkes

Liverpool was a greater slave trading port and prospered more than most cities from it, there are tons of streets and buildings named after the scouse merchants,indeed Liverpool was the European port most involved in slaving during the 18th century and left Bristol and London standing in the trade. Penny Lane named after the prolific trader James Penny, now more famous for the song, they won't change that and didn't when it was brought up some years ago. Martins Bank has two slave boys carved on the entrance, many of the cities buildings are heavily symbolised with slaves. What is the answer to all these historical (good or bad) symbols should they be removed just to appease some? I say no, it's history we had no dealings with what was 'acceptable' then.

By all historical accounts slave trading was rife amongs African and Arab peoples for centuries before Europeans became involved. Abhorrent though the trade was it was in the main the African tribal chiefs once discovering the benefits of people trading with Europeans rounded up their own and other people to sell. Has this been disregarded by the protestors, laying all blame on the Europeans.

Just seen on the news that "THEY" want to remove Nelson's column..WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?? I say to all THESE PEOPLE if you don't like living here Then move somewhere else

The authorities are handing this country on a plate to every liberal hearted snowflake faction who hate this country, they will play every card they can even the race card to justify their wants.

As a Roman Catholic what about destroying anything associated with Henry V 111 ?
Any other fellow catholics in agreement ?

We are a city of 1.2m and under 10,000 gathered to protest. If it weren’t for Covid that number would have been less. I don’t understand how such a small %age can demand changes to the City police force etc. The worse thing is the prix running the council are actually listening to them!!! I don’t consider myself racist but I find myself disliking those loud mouthed leaders and what they stand for.

Do you know that in the song Penny Lane Lennon wanted the line
#In Penny Lane there is a barber selling Durex #
But George Martin vetoed it
Which reminds me
#In Penny Lane there is a slave trader selling picaninees# 😜

This is about British history,right or wrong,it is history.There are very few countries who do not have a very dark past and now see what they did was wrong.What are we supposed to do flatten everything and start again?Evereyone has issues we do not agree with but most people do not turn to the way it is going on now.The UK is a very tolerant concerning racism but there is now going to be serious problems for years to come.Who payrolls these people that are causing this?I have said before we should sort our own domestic problems out before we get involved with other countries and vice versa.

How about this for racism?

Be careful Tonker you will be called a racist 🇬🇧

News update, the new statue at Bristol has been put in place today, unfortunately, for reasons of a 'snowflake' reaction , it cannot be posted here,
however it can be viewed by members of the best Wigan forum if you are not on the prohibited list , A social distancing queue is in place for a free of charge entry,

"liberal hearted snowflake" tw
Ooh, you do like your tuppeny a'penny slogans.
Caravan bog cleaned after last trip.

"Who payrolls these people" retep1949
Straight off the Trump list of tropes.

"The UK is a very tolerant concerning racism" 1949
Try telling that to Anthony Bryan.
Legally lived and worked in the UK for over 50 years, yet detained twice, and threatened with deportation, and he's not the only one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p08g29ff/sitting-in-limbo

Wigandiver.I am not a Trump supporter and have little time for the USA but grateful for there help in WW2.These are my views.As for the Windrush scandal I feel totally sorry for these people it has been handled in a very bad way as most people in this country understand.

retep1949,

I can accept what you say, but "Who payrolls these people"
suggest a sinister role of the protesters.
Try researching who funds Stepehen Yaxley Lennon.

The majority of the protesters were peaceful, and I would be the first to condemn any violence.

What some people cannot, or will not accept, is that there are people from different ethnicities in this country legally. That is a fact.
It is not going to change, and they are not going away.

What some people cannot, or will not accept, is that there are people from different ethnicities in this country illegally. That is a fact.

I said legally. Illegal immigrants should be deported.

"The British Nationality Act 1948 gave citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies status and the right to settle in the UK, to everyone who was at that time a British subject by virtue of having been born in a British colony."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windrush_scandal

Black British citizens with a perfectly legal entitlement to be here were deported.

Have a look at Sitting in limbo.
Anthony Bryan lost his job, and wasn't allowed to work for three years. He lost his house, couldn't claim any benefits, although he had worked, and paid tax and NI for 50 years, and he had to rely on hand outs from family and friends.

Absolute disgrace.

The 1948 British Nationality act is not quite so straightforward as it was. There have been many amendments to it thus becoming a quagmire of rights and none rights for Commonwealth dwellers wanting to settle here.

The ammendments did not apply to the Windrush generation.

"The Immigration and Asylum Act 1999 specifically protected long-standing residents of the UK from Commonwealth countries from enforced removal."

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windrush_scandal

"The Slave Trade Act of 1807 abolished the slave trade in the British Empire, but not slavery itself. It was not until 26 years later that slavery was abolished. With the Abolition of Slavery Act of 1833, James Lindsay, the 7th Earl of Balcarres and Baron of Wigan, was paid £14,473.15s.6d compensation for 895 slaves in Jamaica (between £1.1 and £48.2 million in today’s money). The Earl built Haigh Hall between 1827 and 1840 on the site of the ancient manor house. With this compensation?"
So what next burn down Haigh Hall?
Just this minute heard that the American TV companies have removed the film "GONE WITH THE WIND"from their networks. The world's going mad

Maybe not to the Windrush generation but depending when implemented apply to others, which was intended.

Little Britain has also been removed from all UK streaming platforms because of the Blackface characters! Also, in the same series, 'jokes about transvestites' are being judged as derogatory?

I think i have a Gone with the Wind DVD somewhere. Should I immediately destroy it? The world is going mad.

"between £1.1 and £48.2 million in today’s money" admin
Is that an accurate estimation ?

"So what next burn down Haigh Hall?"
Nah. Leave it to the council. It'll fall down.

"Maybe not to the Windrush generation but depending when implemented apply to others, which was intended." Anne
After 1999.

UTTERLY AGREE WITH YOU ADMIN.

What, the accurate estimation ?

Is the Caps Lock key stuck gb?

Wigandiver seem lost without his tuppeny a'penny Wikipedia rubbish, which by all accounts can be amended by any Tom Dick or Herbert with a grievence or different angle on the subject.

Nope.

Cop this lot tw:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=windrush+scandal

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/windrush-generation-scandal-sitting-in-limbo-anthony-bryan-documentary-a9552281.html

I, nor anyone I know, are asking for reparations, nor am I planning to loot, riot 'peacefully' protest which results in hundreds of thousand pounds worth of damage, nor the hopsitalisation of anyone due to the invasion of the UK by the Italians, the Germanic peoples, the Swedes, The Danes, the French, or the Dutch.

I am not seeking reparation for the indenture of my Irish and Scottish ancestors by American, British or Australian gonvernments, {Nor West indies, Barbados or Jamaica).

My ancestors are all dead, I never met any of them to hear their tales, even though they are well documented. Because of their suffering their descendants have, in the majority, a far better life than they would have had the appalling things our ancestors suffered not happened.

My parents aren't suing the British goverment for reparations because my great Grandfathers were forced to go 'over the top' in wars, or kill or be killed by the enemy when all they wanted to do was go honme to their families, nor are they planning to tear down statues reminding them of the fear and suffering their forefathers went through.

#alllivesmatter

This is racist,vile and unacceptable

#Alllivesmatter

Certainly is. Presumably he has been found and charged.

Say it as you see it

firefox When are the British government going to ask the Italians to remove all the statues of Roman Emperors, who systematically enslaved the British Celts...

Or go to Egypt and tear down the slave built pyramids.

Or close down all the big old houses with chimneys because they used to send children up to clean them. Close all the canals because most were built by labour imported from Ireland who lived and worked in poor conditions.

The Guardian’s slavery legacy. Guido Fawkes.

Guardian columnists are revelling in the destruction of imperfect historical figures, perhaps unaware their employer’s past is one rooted in being on the side of the US Confederacy and opposition to Abraham Lincoln. Will Black Lives Matter protestors begin marching towards 90 York Way?

Back in the 1860s, The Manchester Guardian gave unqualified support to the confederacy during the American civil war; even reprinting confederate propaganda against the slaves’ liberator Abraham Lincoln.

“it was an evil day both for America and the world when he was chosen President of the United States”

– Manchester Guardian, 10th October 1862

Upon the news of President Lincoln’s assassination, the Guardian described the president’s time in office as “abhorrent”, specifically the Proclamation of Emancipation – the act that declared “all persons held as slaves” within the rebellious states “are, and henceforward shall be free.”

Perhaps the opposition to emancipation of slaves was driven by the views of their founder, John Edward Taylor, who made his money in the cotton trade – an industry that prospered on the backs of cotton-picking slaves. After the death of their founder in 1844, the paper continued its relationship with its cotton merchant advertisers, going as far as demanding Manchester’s cotton workers, who refused to touch cotton picked by US slaves, should be forced back into work. Guido’s proud that his heritage is rooted in a history of toiling to end the despotic rule of oppressive leaders…

Just heard the Chinese are ganging up now because Britain paid the Chinese workers in opium that sent them daft.

Is this the right stop for the outrage bus?

I reckon those who have jumped aboard don't really give a monkey's about what's happened in the US, but I suppose it's something to occupy themselves with on here for a while.

What's the phrase now?...feigned indignation!

No Terry, just folk fed up with dickheads who want to somehow change history....the comment are all viable and they're just pointing out how stupid it's become...

"Or go to Egypt and tear down the slave built pyramids." ff

Too many Ceil B de Mille flicks, or Old Testament stories ff

Really need to read up on your Egyptology.
No slaves were armed in the building of these pyramids.

Gaffer the Manchester mill workers supported the North and the abolitionist in the US civil war. At great costs to themselves.

https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/from-the-archive-blog/2013/feb/04/lincoln-oscars-manchester-cotton-abraham

That's what I call self sacrifice.

There is a statue in Manchester to commenorate this.

https://manchesterhistory.net/manchester/statues/lincoln.html

"Ready when you are, Mr. DeMille"!

More sound bites from WD and Google. Tsk, bad form!

You were, of course, there to oversee the building using free men happily at their work, diva?

Egyptologists change their mind more often than they change their underpants. They found graves of workers, all with wage packets stating hours worked on various pyramids.

Do some research ff. Try Google, or wikipedia.

The reading may do you some good, or try watching Sitting in limbo. Moving pictures and no reading.

Sound bites, and cheap slogans are your speciality tw, but no substance.

Wigan Diver

The Guido Fawkes article is explict. The cotton workers supported the cotton slaves and, by extension,the North.
He also states that the owners of The Guardian supported the Confederates because they profited from the use of cotton slaves.

Haven't read a lot of any sort substance in your posts, WD. Going off the replies to you neither have others.

Was Yosemite Sam a racist when he called Bugs Bunny a "cotton picking varmint"?

I'm asking for a friend.

Ant and Dec apologizing now for pretending to be blackmen, next it will be all these faked tanned and whitened teeth women.
When we are allowed to go back on our holidays we all will have to stay out of the sun.

"The Guido Fawkes article is explict. The cotton workers supported the cotton slaves and, by extension,the North". g

I wrote "Gaffer the Manchester mill workers supported the North and the abolitionist in the US civil war."

Look up abolitionist.

Baden Powell statue to be removed from Poole This isn't going to stop Racism it is going to fuel it..
"The tail is now wagging the dog"

Anyone who thinks Sir Winston Churchill is a racist can send me as many portraits of him as they have. I will accept all.




"Many Egyptologists therefore subscribe to the hypothesis that the pyramids were also built by a rotating labor force in a modular, team-based kind of organization."



#alllivesmatter

Is 'Running On The Spot' racist?

I hope Eric Morecambe's statue isn't removed.

He isn't really taking the Mick out of one legged people.

Cats have (9) lives too..

Tear it down.

#alllivesmatter

I once witnessed a black guy answer a phone with "Hello statue".

That's true that is and not racist.

Although I am a big campaigner for equality, not just in race but in gender and even alternative lifestyles... I do think there is a danger here in finding fault in every statue, building, work of art, etc and our history heritage and culture will be compromised, if not eradicated. History may be taken off the British schools' curriculum. I am a great believer in human rights but maybe we need to revisit and evaluate every work of art, ultimately assigning a true assessment rather than eradicating every symbol . It is frightening to know where this may lead. As an Englishmen I am patriotic, but I wouldn't like to see the wonderful portraits of Napoleon being desecrated or destroyed. it's a huge dilemma now and only a sensible and sensitive solution might suffice. I hope we can all work this out without the violence that we have witnessed.

Good post JR. But I must say the factions we have seen on the news causing destruction to their own cities and towns have no idea about the things they are "protesting" about, many don't even know about the two world wars and have non or very little knowledge of what they involved. I believe the majority have jumped on the band wagon and involved themselves in the mob mentality we have witnessed, also a lot of it as usual was orchestrated by the sub cultures/factions who live for anarchy and nothing more.

A policeman and his female colleague were attacked yesterday by a gang of black guys (who were trying to mug someone) one with a baseball bat... which was filmed by some of the gang members Not a mention on the news..

Admin,there was a mention about it but they said they could not show it for legal reasons.I have seen the footage and it is disgusting

Why are you tearing down the statue

retep..they could not show it for legal reasons??? WHY??? lets see the faces of this SCUM..Lets see if there are any prosecutions as their faces were clearly visible.

The majority of them don't know their arse from their elbow, Aziraphale, let alone why they are protesting.

"A policeman and his female colleague were attacked yesterday by a gang of black guys (who were trying to mug someone) one with a baseball bat... which was filmed by some of the gang members Not a mention on the news.."

Still nothing on the main 6 o'clock news. the politicians of this country need to GET SOME BALLS

I saw the guy with the baseball bat being interviewed and I’m sure he went to aid the policeman.

What was he doing carrying a Baseball bat ?

He said he saw what we happening from his flat and ran to help the policeman. Daily mail story.
Story

Well done to him. So HE WASN’T RUNNING ROUND WITH A BASEBALL BAT. A Good Samaritan in fact.

Well done that man, he deserves some acknowledgement of what he did. But as there is nothing on the News he probably won't

STatue of Churchill boarded up.

Did the left win the election?

I very much agree with Terry's statement about people 'jumping on the bandwagon'. I think there is a new culture that has or is being 'cultured' where everyone feels a need to part of every initiative without a full understanding of the whole picture; in fact they often have little desire to investigate. They just wish to show that 'they were there'. I despair; it's frightening to think where we are heading...

"You're going to hate me for writing this. You're going to resist what I say because you don't want it to be true. You're going to pretend that I want this to be true when, in fact, there is nothing I hate more than the fact that it has come to this.

Here is what happens next:

If protestors continue to deface monuments like Winston Churchill's statue and burn British flags on the Cenotaph, you will see groups forming to defend them. These groups will be composed primarily of young, angry white men and led by people with links to groups like the EDL and Tommy Robinson. This is already happening.

The groups will gather in city centres to "defend our country". They will have names with words like "patriotic", "British", "defence" in them.

Inevitably, they will clash with the current protestors and the police. Under pressure from the media and political class, the police will overreact. They will treat these groups differently to the BLM protestors. They will use force. They will detain people for breaking lockdown rules. They will issue stiff sentences.

The media will do the opposite of what they did with the BLM protestors - instead of talking about how "27 police officers were injured in "largely peaceful" protests", they will run major front page headlines like "27 police officers injured by far right violence".

At this point, the majority of the public will lose the ability to be nuanced. The double standards will be too obvious to ignore. Fuelled by a constant stream of images of white people kneeling, washing POC feet and publicly apologising, as they already are, they will conclude that their very identity is under attack.

At this point, all their sensible aversion to supporting thuggish far right groups will evaporate. They will believe they are in a war for their survival and extreme measures are justified.

At the next election, which will likely be brought forward for one reason or another - fuelled by mass unemployment resulting from the economic depression, far right parties will make significant inroads. When I say “far right”, I am not talking about what the far left call “far right” such as anyone who talks about controlling immigration. I’m talking about genuine far right parties that talk about *reversing* immigration and deportations.

These parties will not win seats or get anywhere near Government but they will put a UKIP-like pressure on the Conservatives. Boris Johnson will likely be ousted as too soft and liberal and replaced by a law and order hardliner.

From here, I’m afraid, the journey is all too obvious.

The only way to prevent this is to reverse the re-racialisation of our society. Either we learn to live together or the very idea of a multi-ethnic society is over."

As you prophesied, it appears your predictions are becoming a reality!

"These parties will not win seats or get anywhere near Government "

Although the BNP did get into the European Parliament!

It's a strange world we live in now!

"Always be sure that you struggle with Christian methods and Christian weapons. Never succumb to the temptation of becoming bitter. As you press on for justice, be sure to move with dignity and discipline, using only the weapon of love. Let no man pull you so low as to hate him. Always avoid violence. If you succumb to the temptation of using violence in your struggle, unborn generations will be the recipients of a long and desolate night of bitterness, and your chief legacy to the future will be an endless reign of meaningless chaos.

In your struggle for justice, let your oppressor know that you are not attempting to defeat or humiliate him, or even to pay him back for injustices that he has heaped upon you. Let him know that you are merely seeking justice for him as well as yourself. Let him know that the festering sore of segregation debilitates the white man as well as the Negro. With this attitude you will be able to keep your struggle on high Christian standards."

Martin Luther King.

From a sermon preached in Montgomery, Alabama, November 6, 1956.

It would seem the black people now have forgotten their own history and the remarkable speeches this good man gave. So I can only assume from recent events they want nothing more than violence and to destroy everything and anything in their path, deface memorials to men who but for them none of our lives would matter.

effing makes my blood boil the above picture,the effing ungrateful bastards swimming in the blood spilt by brave men...

Agreed!

"So I can only assume from recent events they want nothing more than violence and to destroy everything and anything in their path" tw

Not so. Only a few extremists want this, but what about the white racist thugs in Whitehall on Saturday ? 23 police injured and 113 arrests.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-london-protests-leave-23-22189942
I don't see any condemanation of these racist morons.

What about considering that what "they" want is to be treated as equals.

There is no demand that Churchill's statue be removed.
More Johson dog whistle politics.
There has been four reports on race realtions since 2010, so Johnson decides to have another commission. His government haven't even printed the conclusions, and recommendations, of the last one, nor have they implemented most of the recommendations of the previous four.

Kicking the can down the road, or into the long grass.

I don't consider them at all let alone what they want, I have no need to they wouldn't care.

"As you prophesied, it appears your predictions are becoming a reality! "jr

Firefox didn't prophesy it. He copied and pasted it off twitter.
Written by Konstantin Kishin.

Go to the article. Start anywhere and:
left click and drag, which will high light it and the right click and search google.

I never claim to have written it, hence the quotation marks.

"I don't consider them at all let alone what they want, I have no need to they wouldn't care." tw

You've made that patently obvious by your posts that portray you exactly as you are.

"they wouldn't care." tw
That black bloke did last Saturday when he saved that white bloke's life.

Try seeing people as individual human beings and not things.

Quotations are there to see.

Clutching at straws again Jimbo. Tsk!

"Quotations are there to see. " tw

Good form to credit where they come from.

Unnecessary when quotations are used.

No, it is not. You should show the source.

Well I didn't, diva,.
So suck it up, buttercup.

I see the bullies are out again.

Tha cawn't beat a bit 'o Bully.

This is what happens ....

that bendy bullie looks like a sex doll. not that i've ever owned one like.