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Gaudete



Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 897
Location: Wigan

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New Wiganer.

I couldn't agree more. But, it's not exclusively youngsters who feel that a night out is somewhat lacking if they're not "plastered" at the end of it.

Recently I was invited out to an Indian restaurant as part of a largish group. It had already been discussed before hand that this restaurant didn't have an alcohol licence. Everyone was fine with that (or so we thought at the time) as it had been decided that we would move on to a pub after the meal.

We went into the restaurant and sat down and at that point one or two people asked where the bar was. These were friends of friends who had been invited along and whom I personally had never met before. On learning that there was no bar they decided they couldn't possibly eat a meal without accompanying booze and said they wouldn't stay. As they were friends of the "host" he decided we would all have to leave rather than those people be excluded (although they had actually excluded themselves).

I was so disgusted and embarrassed, I and another friend went off to do our own thing. We had all been looking forward to eating at this particular place.

It's coming to something when somebody feels they can't enjoy a meal without having alcohol with it......especially when they know they will be going to the pub later.
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tardelli



Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 515

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and your not even supposed to drink Beer with an indian anyway! Milk or water is the best bet, a lot of people get tanked up drinking pints to try and cool their mouths down!
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Gaudete



Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 897
Location: Wigan

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's pathetic! A leisurely meal takes, what.... an hour and a half? Two hours at most?

If someone knows they will be able to drink themselves stupid (if they're so inclined) once they've left the restaurant, why can't they just have water or a soft drink with the meal?

It really is a case with some people that if there is no alcohol in the mix, the activity isn't worth bothering with.
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New Wiganer



Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Swinley

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strange, really. We make so much fuss about smoking (no advertising it-no smoking in pubs etc), but how many people have been murdered or stabbed, assaulted or robbed because someone smoked too much? How many have been rushed to A&E because they smoked too many fags at a party? How many youngsters have died through over-indulgence of tobacco on a night out? None,of course, but our town centres are overwhelmed with drunken youths on weekend evenings and have become no-go areas for someone of my age, people are kicked to death by gangs of drunken youths, drinkers are getting younger and A&E is filled at weekends with drunks or their victims. Meanwhile many of our top football clubs and our test cricket team are sponsored by brewers and prime-time TV is chocker with ads for alcopops-probably the major cause of underage drinking, and drunken violence, in the UK. Where's the logic?
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Cadfael



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2976

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I shall tell you what galls me.

I love a drink, and I have been known to have one over the prescribed eight on quite a few occasions. But I am pretty responsible, as indeed I suspect most of us are.

Now one suggestion to combat this problem is to get rid of cheep booze. Either by tax or some form of regulation of the cheep booze outlets. Thus, EVERYONE will be punished for the actions of these drunken yobs. Why should I have to pay more for something that I use responsibly? If any form of action is needed it should be targeted specifically at the offenders, not a wide-sweeping draconian measure that also effects the innocent along with the guilty.

If there is a drunken brawl in King Street, send the police in batons to beat the holy crap out of the offenders, and let it be known there will be no talk of police brutality law actions. Then throw them in the back of a meat-wagon and have them in court and make the punishment a real punishment, not just a fine. Let the police... 'police', instead of worrying about the rights of yobs.

The cynic in me tells me this is just a ploy to recoup the loss of revenue from smoking, they are using the problem to screw us for more tax.
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New Wiganer



Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Swinley

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your point is well made, Cadfael, especially on the subject of cheap booze. Retailers often excuse it on the grounds of 'consumer demand'. Sainsburys, when criticised last week, for selling strong cider at 26p per litre (or was it pint) used this excuse but I'd like to know who these consumers were who stormed the bastions of Sainsburys HQ and made that demand. The truth, of course, is that they create the demand themselves. It was the same with the company that started selling full-face hoodies with perspex eyeholes - 'our customers demanded them' said a spokesperson. This spokesperson says "b******s they did!" As for baton-charging cops, you know as well as I do, Cadfael, that we are too liberal a society to allow that to happen, much as one or two coppers I know are itching to get stuck in to some of these yobs.
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New Wiganer



Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Swinley

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hang on, Cadfael, it's a bit early for me (had a sleepless night), and I've just realised that you're supporting cheap booze. I'll have to consider my response.
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New Wiganer



Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Swinley

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awake now and can think straight. If we had a population of young people who knew when enough was enough, a population who didn't think getting legless and into a punch up was what constituted a good night out, I would agree. But we don't. Cheap booze and alcopops are the scourge of our youth. My daughter, now a school teacher, scorned all strong drink, she thought it smelled and tasted foul. Then someone introduced her to Archers, Bacardi Breezers etc. Booze was suddenly palatable to young people and that's why the advertising is directed towards them. On the continent they've never got such a hold (it's small glasses of beer and wine). Add that to the dirt cheap cider that I see the kids drinking in the park, along with the alcoholics, and we're courting trouble. Sorry, Cadfael, whilst I agree that it is wrong to punish the majority for the sins of the minority, it has to be done. We have to price youngsters out of the market. We won't, of course, market forces will see to that.
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Cadfael



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2976

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What we actually have to do is come down hard upon the store-keepers who are breaking the law and selling this stuff to the kids. Better education about the effects of long term drinking, and a system of absolutely no tolerance when those same kids go on the rampage. make them pay properly... or make their parents pay. As it stands today, unless someone actually dies nothing is done, a slap on the wrist... assuming the police bother to attend. These kids are not daft, they know their is little chance they will actually be made to pay.

I hasten to add, it is not just kids, some 'adults' don't know when enough is enough and create a scene. They may end up with a small fine they can pay by installments.

Raising the cost of booze will not actually solve the problem, they will find a way to get their hands on it. Either by paying the extra or stealing it. My mother used to work in an Off-Licence, and it was a constant problem with kids shop-lifting. On one occasion they opened the door, grabbed a case of lager and legged it up the street.

At the end of the day I am not against booze becoming more expensive, but only if it is due to market forces or normal taxation. I just do not agree with making it expensive for the sake of it in a lame attempt to solve a problem, an attempt that will actually do nothing. People still smoke, even young kids... although the cost of a packet of 20 is around the 5 mark. Higher tax on tobacco does not work, why should it work with booze?

Also, most of the kids I see drinking in the street are on cans of lager, not alcopops, those ARE expensive.
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New Wiganer



Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Swinley

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All of which is right and I think we all know that it's an almost impossible problem to solve. As you say, kids will get hold of booze - some parents send them out with it to get them out of their hair. Store keepers, the honest ones, aren't always to blame, either. When I was in the Coop at Orrell a few weeks ago I saw a lad of 19 or 20 buy 2 bottles of Lambrini. When I left the store just behind him I saw him hand them over to a couple of obviously under age girls. And possessing alcohol under the age of 18yrs still isn't illegal - just selling it to under 18s, though I understand that may be about to change.
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Cadfael



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2976

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

New Wiganer wrote:
When I was in the Coop at Orrell a few weeks ago I saw a lad of 19 or 20 buy 2 bottles of Lambrini. When I left the store just behind him I saw him hand them over to a couple of obviously under age girls. And possessing alcohol under the age of 18yrs still isn't illegal - just selling it to under 18s, though I understand that may be about to change.


If the law does change, it should also encompass making it illegal to supply under 18 with booze.... so the 19 year old who buys it for them also ends up in the dock.

This is actually targeting the offenders and those who support them.
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godfrey



Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New Wiganer wrote:
unreality wrote:
Is that near Gamestation? I just hope it'll be open past 5.30pm unlike all the other coffee shops that shut when the shops do. So if I'm in town with the GF past shop closing time all we can do is go to pubs or fast food places. Wigan needs to get with the times and realise there is a market after 5.30pm!
We need a more continental outlook. In France, where I lived for a while, Friday and Saturday nights you'd see the whole family down the local Cafe/Bar. Everyone felt safe. In Jersey recently I found a cafe full of old sofas with shelves of board games, magazines etc and the place was packed with local youths - no booze and no trouble! Over the last 15 years it seems that when some of our youngsters go out they don't feel they've had a good time unless they get legless. It's a real shame. 'Designer cafes like StarCostaNero don't help, they're outrageously expensive and, as Cadfael and others have said, close too early.


You make a good point. I am not too sure what it is with the drinking culture here but it is not good.

In Spain they tend to go out, with kids, pretty late and eat and drink and not fight a whole deal.

Possibly it is a sort of 'rite of passage' due to underage drinking being prohibited. Or maybe we just like getting leathered and fighting. Confused

The coffee shops are okay but have little character. Out of the lot I prefer Nero for some reason. There is a nice one in Liverpool by Water Street that is nice to while away a bit of time.

What would be nice is a late night coffee bar which has a more 'organic' (as opposed to manufactured) environment that has a good selection of music and stuff.

I went the Coven and the coffee is good. It could do with opening late as a sort of chilled nightspot with some acoustic nights. People could just come in and listen to some relaxed tunes and read some esoteric lit, away form the puking and fighting.
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Gaudete



Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 897
Location: Wigan

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="godfrey

You make a good point. I am not too sure what it is with the drinking culture here but it is not good.

What would be nice is a late night coffee bar which has a more 'organic' (as opposed to manufactured) environment that has a good selection of music and stuff. [/quote]

Godfrey, I agree.

This "drink yourself stupid" culture does not exist in the same way outside Britain.

As I said earlier in the thread, many people would not entertain a social activity that doesn't include drinking alcohol and might look upon someone who can enoy a night out without getting bladdered as being boring or even weird. I know a few people who think like that.

A coffee bar of the type you've suggested would be great. The problem is that, in Wigan, many people would be put off venturing into the town centre at night, especially at the weekend and especially around king St/Wallgate area.

I wouldn't even consider it and haven't been into Wigan town centre at night for years.
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godfrey



Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gaudete wrote:
[quote="godfrey

You make a good point. I am not too sure what it is with the drinking culture here but it is not good.

What would be nice is a late night coffee bar which has a more 'organic' (as opposed to manufactured) environment that has a good selection of music and stuff.


Godfrey, I agree.

This "drink yourself stupid" culture does not exist in the same way outside Britain.

As I said earlier in the thread, many people would not entertain a social activity that doesn't include drinking alcohol and might look upon someone who can enoy a night out without getting bladdered as being boring or even weird. I know a few people who think like that.

A coffee bar of the type you've suggested would be great. The problem is that, in Wigan, many people would be put off venturing into the town centre at night, especially at the weekend and especially around king St/Wallgate area.

I wouldn't even consider it and haven't been into Wigan town centre at night for years.[/quote]

Possibly true. If I decided to buy the Waterview on my fastastico wage then I will create a veranda overlooking the canal and cool mellow tunes drifting out. With some nice lighting it will be really relaxed.

Soft drinks, good coffee and no irritating drunks mocking because you are not as drunk as them. Oh, and good food as well. Free tapas!

Man, I am genius!
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Gaudete



Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 897
Location: Wigan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about some of those veggie "mush" burgers we eat in The Tudor?

Seriously, sounds good. A few boats moored up, people chilling by the side of the canal.

You could even have a couple of evenings a week when people can bring along their guitar, fiddle or whatever and make a bit of sweet music together.

Keep it peaceful; keep it cool! Very Happy
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