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Posted by Diane Brackett on 18th September 2017  dianebrackett1946@gmail.com 

I am trying to locate where my aunt was sent to in Wigan in about 1914.
Her name was Ida Frances Ashworth DOB 12th December 1909 Hackney London.
Her mother was Lilian Ashworth nee Horrocks, father unknown.
Lilian was living in Nelson but went to Hackney workhouse and had her daughter..

In the 1911 Census
Ida Frances was put in the Burnley workhouse with her brother Stanley Ashworth my father.
I was told by Burnley Library that Ida Frances was fostered out from the workhouse at age 5 to a family in Wigan who had a Grocers shop. That is the only info I have for her..Any help to locate where that Grocers family and Ida Frances may have been would be most appreciated. Thank you.

Posted by kevin benson on 28th August 2017  kevin.benson@tiscali.co.uk 

FAO: Jean Hynes nee Benson Re: Thomas benson and Margaret bell. please get in touch via email..... Kevin.benson@tiscali.co.uk

Posted by Mary James on 21st August 2017  marygriffithsjames@gmail.com 

I have known for a very long time that my paternal Griffiths Family lived in Wigan from early in the 1800s when John Griffiths (Llanwrst), his father John and mother Jane owens moved there. John married mary phillips who was from Ruthin. The recent interest in my Wigan ancestors is a result of a DNA test which has given me the family of my great grandfather, who was also my step great, great grandfather!! There has always been mystery around the father of my grandmother. this now leads me to all sorts of connections in the Pemberton area and the names include: Green, Fairhurst, Molyneux, Farrimond, Robinson, Sharrock and many more local names. I have researched quite extensively and would like to contact others looking at these families or undertaking a one place study in Lamberhead green/Ince/ Standish areas and also with knowledge of the various religious denominations incl Free Methodist and RC

Posted by Shirley Dorse Welland on 12th August 2017  teddybear44@gmail.com 

Hi, I am hoping someone may be able to help me, I am looking for my GG Grandfather & his family, I have tried before with no success, his name was John Melling, he was charged with larceny and imprisoned 3 times before being caught for stealing a bottle of Brandy from the hotel, which he dropped when caught by police he went to court and defended himself (not a good idea I thought) the case was in the newspapers and can be found on the internet. The information I am after is if his parents were named at any one of the times he was charged, he started at 9yrs old. I am hoping the police records might mention his Mother or Father so I can then check against the Parish records as there are a few John Mellings born around the same time he was sent to NSW Australia for 7yrs, I know his history from there. I would appreciate any help with this. Thanks Shirley.

Posted by Carol on 31st July 2017  carolmcewen@slingshot.co.nz 

Hello Linda - Morning from NZ thank you for all that information, you have certainly answered a lot of questions we had. Would you be interested in making email connection with me. I have included my email for you. It is a very cold morning here - nearly midday and temp still around 5 degrees most unusual for our area of NZ. Cheers Carol

Posted by LEP1950 on 30th July 2017  

So Carol, this is what I have found out about William and Emily Baldwin's children:

EMMA - birth registered in the last quarter of 1841 in Arlesford, Hampshire; no baptism found to date; married WILLIAM SMITH, the son of Richard Smith, at St Mary's, Birkenhead on October 23rd, 1865; in 1881 census in Oxton, Birkenhead without any children; Emma died in 1889 and husband William is living with his brother Thomas in the 1891 census. William's parents Richard and Ann are in the 1871 census, but no sign of William and Emma, at least not after a brief search.

CAROLINE, b. in France about 1843. We know what happened to her!

CHARLES, b. in France about 1845. In the 1851 Birkenhead census, but disappears after that. It seems that he died in the first quarter of 1857.

WILLIAM, b. 1848, d. 1848 at age of two months; christened at St Stephen's, Congleton, Cheshire on April 26th, 1848 and buried in Astbury on May 7th, 1848.

So William and Emily were first in Hampshire, then in France, then briely in Cheshire before moving to Shrewsbury, Shropshire and then back to Birkenhead, Cheshire.

HARRIET, b. 1849 in Shrewsbury, Shropshire, but registered in the Apr-May-June quarter as Priscilla (!) She married as HARRIET PRISCILLA on August 25th, 1875 in Woodchurch, Cheshire. Her husband was Henry Hodgson, the son of Elliot Hodgson. In the censuses, she is always just Harriet - in 1851 in Birkenhead, in 1861 in Wales with father William and stepmother Catherine, in 1871 working as a servant in Oxton, Birkenhead, Cheshire. You can easily find her in the censuses after this.

MARY's birth was registered in the last quarter of 1850. I think she was possibly buried at St Mary's Birknhead on January 1853 aged 2. The age and area fit,but the father's name is not mentioned, and so I cannot be 100% positive. In any case Mary disappears. Her mother died in 1852. I suppose Mary could possibly have been given to relatives.

The possible Hammell connection is interesting. A Henry Hammell is inthe 1851 census for Manchester, a tailor from Ireland.

Linda

Posted by Carol on 30th July 2017  

For Linda LEP1950 22 7 2017
Yes those are the ladies I mentioned, you have also confirmed some of the information I did not have regarding Elizabeth. Cheers Carol

Posted by Carol on 30th July 2017  

For Linda
Yes I would love the other names you mentioned in contact re Second marriage of Caroline's father.
Alsi had an intersting conversation today with neighbour he brought out a box dated 1856 name H Hammel from Armaugh we are now looking to see whether this person fits into the tree because if he does the neighbour is related. His wife we discovered was realted to my husband this would make Michael related to our family. Strange - will let you know more as we trace the lines. \Carol

Posted by LEP1950 on 26th July 2017  

For Carol:

Caroline's father married a second time on July 20th 1856 at St Peter's, Liverpool - a widow named Catherine Humphreys, nee Davies.

Do you want to know about the marriages/deaths of Caroline's siblings? Or are you only interested in your direct line?

Linda

Posted by LEP1950 on 24th July 2017  

For geri schembari:

I can help with Robert Radcliffe's father's name. It was WILLIAM:

Marriage: 31 Jan 1859 St Mary the Virgin, Bury, Lancashire, England

Robert Radcliffe - 28, Weaver, Bachelor, Bury
Mary Davis - (X), 20, Spinster, Bury

Groom's Father: William Radcliffe, Sawyer
Bride's Father: Thomas Davis, Labourer

Witness: William Openshaw, (X); Charles Whitehead
Married by Banns by: Thomas Brooke Curate
Register: Marriages 1858 - 1860, Page 95, Entry 189
Source: Original Register

I can also confirm that Mary's mother's name was ANN. William and Mary's daughter Nancy, born 1868 in Blackburn, is staying with her grandmother ANN DAVIES in Bury in the 1871 census. I have found baptisms or all the children born after 1865 (one or two died), but I have to date no baptism for William or Jane Ann. If you do not have the other baptisms, I will send you details.

Below is the only baptism I can find of a Robert Radcliffe to a William in the Wigan area:

Baptism: 14 Dec 1826 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Robert Ratcliffe - 3 Son of William Ratcliffe & Ann
Born: 1 Dec
Abode: Aspull
Occupation: Shopkeeper
Baptised by: J. Bromilow Curate
Register: Baptisms 1825 - 1827, Page 204, Entry 1629
Source: LDS Film 1885677

The age corresponds to Robert's age in 1871, but his age in the censuses changes by more or less than 10, but never by 10, every time!!

I will wait for a reply before I send any other thoughts.

Linda

Posted by LEP1950 on 24th July 2017  

Carol,

To continue with Caroline's ancestry:

Father William Baldwin was christened on May 29th 1814 in Preston Candover, Hampshire. He was the son of JOHN BALDWIN and his wife ANN and had at least the following siblings:

JAMES (ch. 19th July 1807)
HENRY (ch. 29th January 1809)
CHARLES (ch. 8th December 1810)
HARRIET (ch. 12th December 1818)

William's father JOHN BALDWIN was also born in Preston Candover. He was christened on September 24th 1779 and had at least one sibling called DANIEL, who was christened on January 12th, 1776. The names of the parents were DANIEL BALDWIN and OLIVE.

So far, I have not been able to find out anything about Daniel's ancestry, but OLIVE LAMBOLL was born in 1742 in Preston Candover, Hampshire, the daughter of WILLIAM LAMBOLL and ELIZABETH SIMPSON (married 19th DEC. 1733). OLIVE had at least the siblings:
ELIZABETH (1735)
WILLIAM (1737)
JOHN (1739).

The above information is on familysearch with references.

That takes you well back into the 18th century with Caroline's ancestors.

Linda

Posted by LEP1950 on 23rd July 2017  

For John: Houghton/Fairhurst

I haven't been able to find out where John was buried, but it looks like 34-year old Elizabeth Fairhurst died at 31 Pool Street, Poolstock and was buried as a Non-Conformist in Wigan Cemetery, Ince, in grave D199 on March 2nd 1862. The only other person in this grave was a Peter O'Neil, who was buried 40 years later in 1902. Do you think this is "your" Elizabeth?

John Fairhurst and Elizabeth don't seem to have stayed in Hindley. In 1851 they are at Bull Hey Field in the centre of Wigan. I'm fairly sure I have the right couple as a visitor named ANN HOUGHTON is with them. There are three children - John (6), Ellen (4) and Elizabeth (2). By 1861, Elizabeth is widowed and a provisions dealer in Manchester Road, Ince-in-Makerfield. There are now three further children: Ann (10), Joseph (8) and Mary (6).

Interesting is that at the Pool Street address in May 1861 a 4-month old baby called Elizabeth Fairhurst had died.The maiden name of the mother is given as Fairhurst. Baby of the eldest daughter??

Sorry not to be able to help you more.

Linda

Posted by LEP1950 on 23rd July 2017  

Carol,

William Baldwin (Caroline's father) was not born in Preston, as is stated in the 1851 census, but in a little place called PRESTON CANDOVER in HAMPSHIRE. I found this out from the 1861 census where he is in Wrexham with daughter Harriet and wife (or partner?) Catherine. This was 9 years after Emily's death.

William's baptism is on findmypast for the year 1814 in Preston Candover. I haven't got a subscription, but I have asked someone to look it up for me (or rather you).

Linda

Posted by LEP1950 on 23rd July 2017  

Carol,

I had wondered why William and Emily Baldwin couldn't be found after 1851. It now seems that Emily died in 1852 aged 31. She was buried on June 6th 1852 at St Mary's, Birkenhead, Cheshire.

I have found marriages of some Caroline's siblings (will send them later), but still no baptisms.

Not yet sure what happened to William.

Linda

Posted by LEP1950 on 22nd July 2017  

For Carol: On Caroline's ancestors

I have in the meantime found out that Caroline's father William Baldwin married EMILY TIBBLE in the third quarter of 1840 in Alresford, Hampshire. They are in the 1841 census in Northington, Hampshire. Their eldest daughter Emma was born there in the fourth quarter of 1841. (This corresponds with the 1851 census in which the birthplace of Emily and Emma is given as Hants - the abbreviation for Hampshire and not a place in Lancashire as the enumerator wrongly notes).

Emily herself was christened on 28th January 1821 in Northington, Hampshire, the daughter of JOSEPH TIBBLE and his wife MARY. She had at least one sister called ANN, who was christened on June 16th 1816.
There were probably other siblings, but the mother's name is noted there as Mary Ann and so I am not completely sure. William and Emily Baldwin are living with Joseph and Mary Tibble in the 1841 census.
Joseph and Mary are still alive in 1851, where Mary is noted as Mary A. Tibble, born Twitton, Somerset, and in 1861.

Going back to the 1841 census, Emily's sister Ann is living with her husband Thomas Tee a couple of pages further on from the Tibbles and Baldwins. She, interestingly, has a baby daughter called Caroline. Did Emily name her own daughter Caroline after her niece?

Still no baptisms of the Baldwin children.

Linda

Posted by LEP1950 on 22nd July 2017  

Hi Carol,

I suppose you are referring to these marriages:

Marriage: 18 Sep 1898 St Elizabeth of Hungary, Aspull, Lancashire, England
William Seddon - 22, Collier, Bachelor, 1 Shaw's Fold, Higher Gullet
Elizabeth Jackson - 20, Factory Hand, Spinster, 8 Stanley Road
Groom's Father: John Seddon, (decd.), Collier
Bride's Father: James Jackson, Collier
Witness: Thomas Seddon; Charlotte Jackson
Married by Banns by: C. A. Chessington S. Davids Haigh & Aspull
Register: Marriages 1883 - 1907, Page 150, Entry 299
Source: LDS Film 1885720


Marriage: 12 Nov 1904 St Elizabeth of Hungary, Aspull, Lancashire, England
William Wilcox - 22, Collier, Bachelor, Aspull
Dorothy Seddon - 20, Cotton Factory Weaver, Spinster, Aspull
Groom's Father: George Wilcox, Collier
Bride's Father: John Seddon, (decd.), Collier
Witness: William Ainscough; Harriet Alice Seddon
Married by Banns by: George F. Grundy M.A. Vicar
Register: Marriages 1883 - 1907, Page 223, Entry 445
Source: Original register at Wigan Archives


Marriage: 12 Nov 1904 St Elizabeth of Hungary, Aspull, Lancashire, England
William Ainscough - 23, Collier, Bachelor, Aspull
Harriet Alice Seddon - 24, Cotton Factory Reeler, Spinster, Aspull
Groom's Father: John Johnston, (decd.), Brakesman
Bride's Father: John Seddon, (decd.), Collier
Witness: William Wilcox; Dorothy Seddon
Married by Banns by: George F. Grundy M.A. Vicar
Register: Marriages 1883 - 1907, Page 222, Entry 444
Source: Original register at Wigan Archives

Your grandmother's story is strange. According to Lancashire records and the registers of St Elizabeth's of Hungary, John Seddon was buried on June 20th 1896. His wife Caroline two years later on July 26th 1898. I don't know what your grandmother remembered. (???)

Obviously, it's difficult to find a baptism for Caroline as she was born in France. In fact it's difficult to find baptisms for any of her siblings, but I have found out a bit more about her ancestry. I will send this separately as sometimes the message disappears when things are copied and pasted (as above).

Linda

Posted by john on 22nd July 2017  jhoughton1954@yahoo.co.uk 

HI. i have a past relation elizabeth houghton who married john fairhurst at all saints hindley in 1844. i dont think that they moved away from hindley. my question is which churchyard most likely would they have been buried in at that time john lived till 1859 aged 34 and elizabeth 1862 aged also 34. i would also be interested in the whittle family of hindley and any o/s map or info of houghtons yard in stoney lane (now liverpool road ) many thanks.

Posted by Carol McEwen on 22nd July 2017  carolmcewen@slingshot.co.nz 

Linda
Thank you for that informoation. Starting with 9/7 - ; p1. If these zare Johns parents then it would be likely that my grandmother was named after one of John's sisters 'Dorothy' - which is quite likely as names were carried through generations I tried to do the same but my hubby had a name in his head of Valynda and Dorothy did not go well as initials as a second name, so she became Valynda Carol. P2. You note that Peter a younger brother married in a Catholic Churcg RC Catholics. That made interesting reading as "my grandmother always said that her mother had died before her husband and had been buried in a paupers grave early in the morning - she was a C of E not Catholic - that her father blamed her mothers death on the fact that she was not a Christian" this was made more interesting after my grandmother died and we located her marriage certificate which confirmed their marriage was held oin St Elizabeths in Aspull - a joint wedding in fact, her sister Harriet Alice married William Ainscough the same day at the wedding. Both Willliams then join William Seddon a brother to the two girls and they travelled to New Zealand - all finished up working in the Waikato Mines and are all buried at Ngaruawahia Cemetery in the Waikato.The wives travelled later first Dorothy and Elizabeth (William Sedoons wife) and them Harriet Alice a little later.

I will see if my grandson may be able to get assistance with this one he has connections in England that may be able to seek the information that we need. I will let you know. Once again thanks for all this. from a wild wet windy and extremely cold Northern New Zealand - known as the WINTERLESS NORTH that is the biggest laugh of the century between 60 - 100mm rain three days in a row ugh!!

Carol

Posted by geri schembari on 19th July 2017  mannyngeri@gmail.com 

I am looking for information on the parents and grandparents of William Radcliffe, b. 3 Feb 1860 in Bury, Lancaster, England. He died on 25 May 1943 in Fall River, MA., USA. William is my grandfather. I believe his father's name is Robert b. abt 1829 in Wigan, Lancaster. He may have died in 1889 in Blackburn. I have no idea who Robert's parents were but am interested to learn. Robert married Mary Davis (1841-1899). Her parents are believed to be Thomas Davis and Ann ?. Any help you can give me would be very much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Posted by JBrown86 on 18th July 2017  

No worries Linda; hope all is well!

Yes I don't trust the Ancestry family trees much either.

Jon