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Started by: ian c (439) Report abuse
i wonder if anyone can shed any light on the o'donnell family for me. i think they lived in pemberton in the years 1910/1950. i have a few names john b1920 d1943 constantine his father b1881 d1967 harriet ( banks ) his mother b1881 d1960. i think i am on the corrct tree with my search, but i cant locate the burials of any of them. john i believed lived for about a year in highfield before his death. any ideas as to where they could be buried, searched the cemeteries on here but cant find them.

just as an add on i believe the family lived in enfield st pemberton in 1911

Posted by: grandmas (594) Report abuse
They appear to have had the following children all born in Pemberton:
1903 James
1904 Margaret
1906 Ellen
1911 Margaret Mary
1913 William
1920 John

Posted by: grandmas (594) Report abuse
1911 Census - 2 Regent Street, Little Lane, Pemberton
Constantine O'Donnell 30 Coal Miner born Orrell
Harriet 29 born Bryn
James 7 born Pemberton
Ellen 4 born Pemberton
Agnes 2 born Lowton

by this time they have had 4 children and one has died (Margaret born 1904)

Posted by: grandmas (594) Report abuse
Hope this is of some help to you - the family would appear to be RC so not able to tell you which church they were married or baptised in.
Constantine was the son of Anthony J. O'Donnell who was born in Dalton, Parbold.
His father Patrick O'Donnell and mother Rose first appear in the1851 Census in Ormskirk Patrick is 27 and Rose 28, Patrick was an Agricultural Labourer. Their first child was born in Liverpool and then they appear in Ormskirk and then Dalton, both Patrick and Rose are from Ireland.

Posted by: ian c (439) Report abuse
Grandmas, thanks for that, some info I had and some you put on which I was wondering about. Did find the rose after I posted. I'm trying to find where john is buried as he's my cousins father. What RC churches are in pemberton and do they have graves? Although I suspect there will be no headstone.

Posted by: macwil48 (302) Report abuse
There's no RC church listed for Pemberton in Wigan Heritage Service A Guide to Genealogical Services(3rd Ed). Nearest appears to be Orrell(Wigan)St James or Billinge Chapel End St Mary or they may have visited one of four RC churches in Wigan. There's transcripts of indices to burials 1920-1997 at Billinge and at Orrell St Mary's for 1856-2005 at Wigan Museum of Life. Burials in Wigan appear to have stopped in 1900 and 1924.

Posted by: dodger (3414) Report abuse
The only RC church in Pemberton is St Cuthberts, but they don't have a graveyard.

Posted by: macwil48 (302) Report abuse
Re John d 1943 have you searched Military Records or War Graves? Just a thought.

Posted by: dodger (3414) Report abuse
I forgot about St Edwards, that is also in Pemberton

Posted by: macwil48 (302) Report abuse
Re Constantine and Harriet I see they were both born in 1881, did they have strong family ties in Ireland? They might have wish to be buried there with family. In which case I'm out of ideas.

Posted by: grandmas (594) Report abuse
Rose and Patrick O'Donnell spent their time in Dalton/Parbold so maybe we are looking in the wrong place for their burial?
Rose died in 1910 (at Billinge) and in 1901 was at 673 Ormskirk Road with
Anthony and Margaret together with their family.
In the 1891 Census she (Rose) is living at Up Holland and receiving Relief from Guardians
Patrick died in 1887 aged 63 so Rose was a widow by 1891
Perhaps Patrick and Rose were buried together in Dalton/Parbold which is where they spent most of their time once they came over from Ireland and if they had a grave the family could also have been buried there?

Posted by: Campfire (582)   Report abuse
A good read.. really interesting and evidence that a lot of work has been done, well done

Posted by: ian c (439) Report abuse
Thanks all who've provided some answers. I'm still no nearer finding johns grave, probably will require a trip to the history shop and some time looking in there. The war grave search didn't give me any answers.
All the info about dates and people posted are similar to those I had found, so we are all finding the same info. I shall hopefully find the missing info one day

Posted by: macwil48 (302) Report abuse
Ian, Do you know what John's employment was? If he was miner he was liable for exemption for service in armed forces. There's no mention of JD being in mining accident in '43. Could check newspaper reports for people killed by bombing etc., if he wasn't serving.

Posted by: ian c (439) Report abuse
macwil48, I'm unsure of his occupation, but mining ran in the family, so I suppose I could presume that's what he did. Know one on his wife's side ( my aunty ) has any info on him. It was seen as a unwanted marriage, not to be spoken of and didn't last long, 12 months. It's all good fun trying to find out everything about the family. It gives me something to do on PC, on the end something will turn, won't it?

Posted by: macwil48 (302) Report abuse
Ian found the following on BMD site

Marriage Dec 1942 O'Donnell John Ethell Wright Wigan 8c 91

Death Jun 1943 O'DONNELL John 23 Wigan 8c 18

The months are quarter year end

Is this correct/any help?

Posted by: ian c (439) Report abuse
The info you post was all the info I had on him until the last few days. I'm told after there wedding they lived in highfield till john died. After which his wife and son moved back to ince. Finding his grave site would be a major find, as would his parents. I get a feeling that the time he was married to my aunt he was not made welcome and I think that when he died that was it! Draw a line in the sand so to speak and never speak of him again. It's only since doing a family tree did I find his marriage and death. Still, it makes searching more interesting and hopefully someone might see this isn't and be able to put another piece into the puzzle

Posted by: macwil48 (302) Report abuse
Ian, Your best bet may be Newspaper reports, If you have death cert it will possibly state if there was inquest. if so it was probably reported in local papers which may include funeral details. Hope I'm not trying to teach my grandma how to suck eggs.

Posted by: LEP1950 (741) Report abuse
Can I write to you privately? Ask Brian to send me your email, please. I have no idea where your O'Donnells were buried (O'Donnell was my mother's maiden name, but I don't think the families were related), but I think I may know why John wasn't welcome.
I'd try St Joseph's church/St Jude's for the funerals. I had Catholic relations in Pemberton who attended services there.


Posted by: LEP1950 (741) Report abuse
I've just been browsing ancestry and someone on there has a baptism for Constantine O'Donnell on January 16th 1881 at St James, Orrell. Unfortunately, there is no scan. However, this might indicate some affiliation of the family to this church.


Posted by: ian c (439) Report abuse
Lep1950 email address sent to Brian, you never know what might transpire. I haven't come across the baptism for Constantine, shall look on ancestry next time on the PC.

Posted by: kathpressey (4656)  Report abuse
ianc - I'm also looking for a grave. My grandfather was RC and married at St Cuthberts. I tried the records office in Wigan and asked advice. I was told to go on the internet. Maybe you'll have better luck

Posted by: Campfire (582)   Report abuse
Keep it up Ian - you will get there eventually.

Posted by: ian c (439) Report abuse
i'm still searching high and low for more clues, with a minor success. i have found that johns greatgreat grand parents are buried at orrell st james's along with a few other family members, unfortunately johns final resting place is still a mystery. still, it gives me something to do searching high and low for new leads

Posted by: LEP1950 (741) Report abuse
I hope you don't think I've forgotten you. I never got an email from Brian. I've been busy with other things lately, but I had intended to write to him this week. Or do you want to try a second time?
Glad that the St James pointer has led to some information.
I wonder whether you could write to Wigan Cemeteries and Crematorium Office to see whether they can help in any way:
Wigan Cemeteries & Crematorium Office

1-3, Worsley Terrace
WN1 1XW Wigan

Phone: 01942 828993


Posted by: LEP1950 (741) Report abuse
I've just stumbled upon something elsewhere. Apparently, if it was a cremation, then information about this can only be obtained through the above office. It seems they do searches, but you might have to pay. I'd ask about costs beforehand. Actually, Catholics weren't supposed to be cremated, but if there was bad feeling between him and the in-laws, then a cremation might have taken place (out of spite??)


Posted by: ian c (439) Report abuse
Lep1950, I did send an email to Brian with my email address asking him to forward it to you, I shall try again. I presume he's contacted through the contact page on here.
I'm not sure, but did cremation occur in Wigan in the 1940's? Always thought they started a few decades later. I don't think that his in-laws would have been involved with the funeral as his parents lived near to him when he died. That's just me guessing with that thought. I've check mining deaths and military deaths but nothing appears.
I shall keep having a look here and there and if I just keep getting a little info each time then eventually the puzzle will be solved

Posted by: Jazzy (8509)   Report abuse
There is St Teresa's Roman Catholic Church in Upholland
Founded in 1940, but not built until 1955 because of the war. The school was designated as the Parish Church until the new church was built.

No graveyard at the church, but it has one at Roby Mill half a mile away.

Posted by: wiganyankeeron (inactive) Report abuse
Received from a friend who isn't a member so he has asked me to post it.

"The person he wants is buried in Our Lady Immaculate Cemetery in Downhall Green. Dorothy is the daughter of Helen one of the family in question, she has the grave number, if he wants to get in touch, you can email me ron@wiganworld.co.uk and I'll pass on the message"

Posted by: Jazzy (8509)   Report abuse
ian, thats great news, hope its the one your looking for. i have followed your search with great interest.

Posted by: ian c (439) Report abuse
well, a success in my quest to find where john o'donnell was buried. a big thanks to johns niece for giving me the burial place. still dont know what he died from, but it has conluded a eventful search, bring up all sorts of problems along the way, but an enjoyable search

Posted by: macwil48 (302) Report abuse
Glad you've found success. Re cause of death that should be on Death certificate obtainable from General Records Office (GRO) for 9.25 https://www.gro.gov.uk either using record details provided earlier or by providing date of death and name and usual address or from local Registrars Office more info at http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk


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