Oh Dear. How Sad. Never Mind.

That's if the dead man was a burglar.

Here

I do feel sorry for the 'assailants' as they will probably end up in court and no doubt have great fear of reprisals.

If it can be proved that reasonable force was used, then they should be ok.

Mail

they did a good job one less to break into anybody elses place,

Should have read your article, the same comments were made on that. Apologies.

It's that bugger about 'reasonable ond proportionate force' though.

If 'burglar' is unarmed, you are not allowed to stab him.

They could claim it was dark, and the criminals shouted they were armed I suppose.

I will also spare a thought for the deceased family. If the 'burglar' had kids, it's not their fault they have lost their dad.

Indeed. But it IS their dads fault they are fatherless.

Absolutely.

Simple really. Dont break into someones property wearing a balaclava. You are clearly up to no good and shouldnt be in that property.

Seconded totty. And its a long time since I heared the expression totty maude.

give them a medal..another scum off the streets

Commenting on the issue homeowner rights, Shami Chakrabarti, director of the civil rights group Liberty, weighed into the debate today.

She said: ‘This is a problem not of law but the public understanding of it.

‘Of course people facing intruders can use reasonable force to defend themselves.

‘But saying that 'burglars leave their rights at the threshold' is a recipe for vigilante execution and mistaken killings of family members returning home after dark.

It can, and probably has happened, but opening the front door is slightly different, and a bigger clue, than kicking the back door open.

Mrs. Chakrabarti on the shortlist of ten people who may run Britain.

God help us all.

When was the last time a family member was killed by mistake? I am with everybody else, one less scumbag to trouble innocent citizens

I wonder if Shami has been burgled as she slept?

As you say, balaclava clad scum at your back door is not what you usually expect. Unless you have a very strange family.

Unless you have a very strange family.

Q.E.D.

confronted at night with three hooded yobs???my reaction would be to kick the **** outa em afore they did untold harm to my sleeping family.
dont cry fer this [removed, brian], he got what he would most liely have given out.

Stabbed Salford burglar John Bennell was on police bail

Here

Note the lack of 'alleged' in the BBC headline.

My grandmother was burgled a good few years ago... she was in bed and could hear them. She was terrified, and it effected her for years afterwards. They never came into her room, they did not touch her... but they did harm her state of mind.

So yes... the bloke got what was coming to him, it was his choice to be there. You also do not wait to see if the intruders intend violence to your family... assume they do and give them a smacking.

Blackstaff wrote

They never came into her room, they did not touch her... but they did harm her state of mind.


Obviously in this case the lady may have heard more than one person in her property.


We always assume there are more than one of them when we are invaded/violated. I think it is most often the case that burglars work alone.


This then, makes me wonder if the Salford incident was actually an attempted burglary or worse.

picture in my mind four people in balaclavas at my back door,trying to break in!not exactly a cat burglar.more maybe comeuppance for the occupier.more to this than meets the eye,salfords a rough old place,i,ve worked there.

A friend of mine, who is paraplegic, was burgled in Manchester. The intruder kicked her wheelchair beyond reach, leaving her helpless and petrified, watching him as he calmly burgled her home.

if there were four burglars ,there should have been four deaths, what's the bloody point of only doing a quarter of a job ,

Luckily for me (or maybe not), an uninvited visit was slept through.

Hence the title of this thread.

There is no doubt more to this than meets the eye, as Baker Boy said.

Before I'd seen the article stating that the dead one is a burglar, I even speculated to myself the possibilities of it being a case of four vigilantes going to visit someone.

anyone with a name like Shami Chakrabarti should in my opinion be completely ignored

Peawapp

Change name to agenda and i agree with you.
The dead man was on police bail for an earlier suspected burglary in Tamworth.

I was amazed at the way Ms Chakrabarti almost agreed with Ken Clarke's comments about varying types of rape.

Rape is rape, no doubt about that. But she (SC) gave the example of cases where masked men break into houses to commit the crime when compared with those rapes committed by people known to the victim, say after a night out.

I suspect that when incidents such as the Salford one occur, or politicians make statements, the press are straight on the phone to Liberty to get a statement from them.

As I typed yesterday:


I wonder if Shami has been burgled as she slept?

Shami Chakrabarti should concentrate on what Liberty was set up for. To campaign against Persercution and Torture and political murder in other countries instead of pushing he nose into the affairs of our country.

A man has been arrested over a suspected burglary in which another alleged intruder was fatally stabbed.

They are still holding the householder for questioning though.

Here


Police are trying to work out why Bennell was carried away from the property by his accomplices.

One theory is that they were trying to get him to a nearby hospital, but did not realise that the hospital had been closed

Copied off dostaf One theory is that they were trying to get him to a nearby hospital, but did not realise that the hospital had been closed.Now There is a Surprise

So when his funeral happens, his comrades will have to remember the fact that they left him to die.

the burglar who died was already on bail for burglary, just think if he'd been locked up the first time, he might still be alive now!!

I saw on telly, (so it may or may not be true), concerning car theft: an offence usually downgraded to TWOC, though it often is theft to the victim, the following.

A person receiving their FIRST custodial sentence for this, on average, has 15 previous convictions for such offences, and usually admit to over 100 previous deeds of a similar nature.

Where I live, one particular miscreant, I was told by the police, has cost the community more than £15 Million. they know who it is, and they still have not managed to get him off the streets.

Crime doesn't pay eh!

Hmmmmmmmm im a bit torn with case.... whilst I think you should be able to defend your property without fear of being prosecuted. Im not sure its ok to kill someone because they broke into your house.... beat the crap out them if you want that reasonable force. Stabbing someone to death is a little distastful and unless your own life is in danger be it they are armed than thats a little different

Sue... you are right, but as has been said... there is more to this than meet the eye...

The group are thought to have been disturbed as they began their attempted raid by trying to smash through the back door.

... that does not sound like a burglary to me. A burgler would try to be silent... they would not kick in a back door and make a racket. If I was indoors and someone began to kick my door in I would assume it was ME they were after and not my DVD player. I would meet them with the deadliest weapon I could find.

As there were more than one miscreant trying to break in the house, the householder would have stark choices, to stand and fight against three to one odds, or defend himself the best way he could. If the first weapon to hand was a knife, instinct would tell me to pick it up.

animal instinct gwim to defend yours.
these noisuy iliterates were probably high on drugs, hence the noise.
in my case, these four were uninvited, and in todays society anything could have happened to loved ones.
# knife/hammer/chisel, whatever, i am in the defence mode to protect my own, and anything goes.
ok fer these gin swigging MPs drawing up does and donts, theyre stacked against law abiding citizens anyway.
ya never hear of a romany trailor being robbed...why?the interpretors know that there would be no quarter given and no mercy handed out. he/they, would be tied to a waggon wheel and flogged.self serving justice hence no robbery"s of trailor homes.

Seems the man who stabbed the criminal was chasing him down the road, it didn't happen in the house. Apologies if that snippet was in the report.

Moodysue,

It's not an exact science.

You could beat someone senseless with a bat, and they recover. You can punch someone just once, and that may kill them.

Some folk have survived multiple stabbings, but some have died through one stab wound.

A millimetre can make all the difference when stabbed.

Without any of us knowing what went on, the use of the knife may be deemed reasonable, or it may not.

The only certainty is that he wont be burgling anyone else. I've no sympathy for him.

jono I dont understand your point.... If you hit someone and they die then yes it is more than likely they didnt intend to kill them.

But hang on a minute if you take a knife to someone your intent is not to give em a black eye now is it?

before I get jumped im not condoning burglary... but your condoning killing it would seem

Reports still say he was stabbed after an 'incident in the house'. A friend from Salford told me (Policeman) that the incident happened in the street. MEN shows the cordoned area outside the property

MEN

I do hope the stabbing took place inside the property.

If he's chased the guy down the road and stabbed him away from the house, he's for the high jump.

Correct, everything else doesn't matter.

excuses excuses excuses, and all for the four perpetrators.
in the dead of night when confronted with four hooded scumbags, out to do you and yours damage, then everything is a/ok in defending your property.the rats have nooo rule book, so why hamstring yaself with a rule book.??????????

could you not find towno, in our antiquated law ledgers, a get off for the victims????the guy was stabbed because they awoke a nervous man who was blinded as to what he should do according to the law??his law as to protect his own, and this was paramount in his shattered reasoning.
i am all for the yank law on tresspass, dont come here iffn ya aint invited rat face, cos you know whats awaiting you.

i am all for the yank law on tresspass,

"Yank laws" are the same.
Shoot him in your house and you're within your rights, chase him down the street and shoot him, you're in a world of hurt.

brain damage eh???soon as he picks his cheque up fer his injuries,ya wont see his arse fer dust.

Saying on telly at the moment that they are going to change the law.

Does anyone know the best way to sharpen a genuine Samurai Sword?

3 men came into my house in Margarita,Venezuela, fortunately I was alone at the time. They started to beat me while I was asleep and then kicked 7 sorts of s**t out of me, I was sliding about on the tiled floor in my own sweat and blood. The police found them later in a nearby field with my property. They shot and killed all 3 of them. I smile to myself every time I think about it.

Excellent. If only our criminals were treated with such disdain.

Only problem was, I didn't get my stuff back, the police kept it but it was still worth the experience

I have the solution for any univited guest!

solution!

I have the solution for any univited guest!

.............or,



......a nice, little .45 ACP.

Make a nasty dent!

Britboy, I took the Utah state concealed carry training a few weeks ago, 5 hours long, now I'm legal to "carry" in over 30 states.
Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
Colorado
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Indiana
Kentucky
Louisiana
Michigan
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
New Hampshire
New Mexico (FL)
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Vermont
Virginia
Washington
West Virginia
Wyoming

Licensed for concealed weapon for some time now but need more practice time to knock the eye out of a mosquito at 100 yds...must keep practicing!

I've been licensed for 2 years, but decided to expand.

Fotos of firearms never hurt anyone

Fotos of firearms never hurt anyone

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Householder is not being charged.

There's good.

Oh, and three scumbags have been charged with aggravated burglary.

The brave lads who left their mate to die.

Sky News

This must come as a great relief to the chap and I suppose most people (like me) would like to give him a pat on the back.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if the poor chap gets feelings of guilt from time to time.

If he does, I hope they soon pass.

years ago whilst working in south africa i was told this tale by a resident .whilst sleeping he was woken by the noise of someone breaking his window he found a black guy in his house .he shot him with a shotgun full of rocksalt ,the injured guy escaped limping away .the man chased and caught him and after dragging him back on to his proprty shot him dead with his pistolapparently you were allowed to shoot to kill only on your own land