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election
Started by: tommy c (592) Report abuse
can the brexit party get in wigan we know the tories cant

Posted by: TerryW (2614) Report abuse
I doubt it. There is only one mindset on that score in Wigan.

Posted by: chatty (7098)  Report abuse
You can't deride the electorate of Wigan.
We've been told for three and a half years on here that the majority wanted Brexit and they know exactly what they want so it must be delivered, therefore I am quite sure whatever they vote for in the general election will be abided by without a peep off anyone.
Or do some people just slag them off when it suits their agenda.

Posted by: laughing gravy (5070) Report abuse
chatty no agenda here i did not vote because it said 350 million pound on a bus! 17 million want out,where do you stand on democracy?

Posted by: fedup (154) Report abuse
Everyone should read the Brexit party's policies as published on their website. Not found any of their ideas yet that I disagree with! Political reform-making sure Postal Voting works,abolishing the House of Lords, make MPs subject to recall etc. Scrapping HS2, more money for the regions outside London, More money for Social Care etc,Scrapping Inheritance Tax, Reduce Business Rates in High Streets outside M25, Scrap interest on Student Loans and many more ideas! Time we had a political shake up as the present 2 (or 3) party system is discredited!

Posted by: baker boy (14994) Report abuse
brexit party for me and more astonishingly brexit party for the mrs,i can tell you without fear or favour as far left as whups,handsomeminer ,grim, sad dog etc before they turned their backs on my mrs.
when someone like my wife gets angry and she has been about the labour parties brexit betrayal, beware foruvogue and nandy.

Posted by: Zanzibar Spangles (3824) Report abuse
Lisa Nandy has never had a real job and she's a Labour MP.
What a topsy turvy party Labour is

Posted by: chatty (7098)  Report abuse
Don't worry the Brexiteers of Wigan wont re elect her....will they.

Posted by: Stardelta (6968) Report abuse
BB?

Can you explain to me exactly how a political party less than a year old with literally no political or governing experience are going to achieve these things and what the up shots of their policies will be including where the money will come from.

Sensible answers only please



Posted by: Stardelta (6968) Report abuse
I assume you have actually asked yourself the same question?

Or are you in the habit of blindly lending yourself and your support to those that promise the earth without providing anything to substantiate the claims?

Posted by: laughing gravy (5070) Report abuse
sd do you agree if folk kept to their word there'd be no need for the brexit party?

Posted by: Zanzibar Spangles (3824) Report abuse
It's the civil service that runs the country, and will advise any new government

Posted by: Stardelta (6968) Report abuse
Quite frankly LG Nigel Fararge has proven himself as big a liar as every other political headliner in this whole sorry affair.

You can't discount and ignore the lies and false promises from one group while supporting the lies and unrealistic promises and claims of another. You may as well vote for someone because you think he is wearing a better looking tie than his opponent.

Too many people, telling too many lies and making too many unrealistic promises solely to feather their own nests, together with too many people guillable enough to not realise it......... that is the root cause of this fiasco.

I am not really a betting man LG but I would quite happily put a fiver on us still being where we are in 5 years time if the mood took me

Posted by: peter israel (622)  Report abuse
my be this will help
General Elections Online

Posted by: whups (4112)   Report abuse
it was,nt binary anyway . if you want to sell yourself down the river vote tory because they will no doubt sell the NHS & it,s contracts to the yanks .it,s no good saying they wont as they have been trying to do it since it,s inception & along with farrage they will do it .and you can forget your free prescriptions & free travel pass too .

Posted by: Zanzibar Spangles (3824) Report abuse
Labour always rabbits on about the tories selling the nhs at election time, they've been doing it for donkeys years,
change the record

Posted by: jathbee (9570) Report abuse
The Tories have already made inroads into privatising the NHS. There will be no stopping them if they are elected again.

Posted by: baker boy (14994) Report abuse
SAD DOG
when the labour party was a year old they had their agenda ,so why can't the brexit party have an agenda .
sensible answer's only please ,foolish man ?.

Posted by: Stardelta (6968) Report abuse
BB.
The Labour Party was founded in 1900 although its origins go back further. During this time they have spent about 25 years in power and it took them 24 years to win a general election and take power.

Now please be kind enough to tell us how much experience the Brexit party has.

Cheers

Posted by: baker boy (14994) Report abuse
how much experience did the labour party have when they first took power.has for the brexit party, its foundations are fromm 1974 when a certain jeremy corbyn was amongst the eurosceptics.
at that time and ever since he has been dead set against europe.apart from when he has to appease the general throng of remoaners from within "his" own party.
touche

Posted by: whups (4112)   Report abuse
wot a load of crap.

Posted by: Stardelta (6968) Report abuse
Ramsey McDonald was the first labour PM in 1924. Given the Labour Party was founded in 1900 the answer to your question is 24 years.

Unfortunately, I don't understand anything else that forms your last comment

Posted by: Stardelta (6968) Report abuse
BB?
Another question for you.

If someone was to send you an email telling you that you were due a tax refund of say £453.45 you would be naturally sceptical and ask yourself several questions before making a conclusion as to if the claim was genuine.

On that basis why would you blindly accept the words of a less than trustworthy individual who promises you and the rest of the country £200bn without asking yourself some similar searching questions?

Posted by: whups (4112)   Report abuse
your wasting your time stardelta you cant reach the unreachable.

Posted by: Stardelta (6968) Report abuse
BB doesn't and never has done.........'answers,

Posted by: laughing gravy (5070) Report abuse
stardelta a easier question for you did a majority of MPs including labour MPs say they would respect the result?

Posted by: whups (4112)   Report abuse
we would,nt be having this conversation if the torys had,nt banned 16 & 17 yrs old a vote.

Posted by: Stardelta (6968) Report abuse
Yes LG I believe they did.

Posted by: laughing gravy (5070) Report abuse
when did 16 and 17 yo vote under labour? i bet you wont answer

Posted by: laughing gravy (5070) Report abuse
so SD they are all untrustworthy are they not? better the devil you know...

Posted by: whups (4112)   Report abuse
iv,e already answered that numpty which you did,nt reply to.

Posted by: laughing gravy (5070) Report abuse
no youve not liar you mentioned scotland, we dont live in scotland IDIOT

Posted by: Stardelta (6968) Report abuse
Yes LG, they can all be described as untrustworthy, a point I believe I made earlier.

Posted by: Stardelta (6968) Report abuse
Better the devil you know?

Interesting comment LG. I may choose to quote you on that at sometime in the future

Posted by: grimshaw (2015)  Report abuse
Good posts S d re the £200 billion .

Posted by: Stardelta (6968) Report abuse
Just read the Brexit party manifesto and election pledges. Seems they are hitting on a number of issues contentious with the British public totally unrelated to Brexit.......no surprises there

On the back of this what I can't understand is why the ruling parties haven't done these things themselves already, both to make the uk a better place for us ( because that is their basic function) and of course to bolster support. Could it be they know something that Nigel doesn't, could it even be Nigel does know something but isn't telling us?

The obvious questions are always the best

Any of Nigel's fan-boys going to take a stab and answer my question?



Then we can discuss where this figure of £200bn he has promised us is going to come from

Posted by: grimshaw (2015)  Report abuse
Dont hold your breath S d .

B T W .

Have you seen the pics of farage in his national front days campaigning alongside webster .?

Leopards and spots spring to mind .

Posted by: Stardelta (6968) Report abuse
It makes me laugh.

Don't vote for Bozza, he tells lies.
Don't vote for Jezza, he tells lies

VOTE FOR NIGEL INSTEAD



Posted by: firefox (156) Report abuse
Labour plan to borrow 400bn to 'invest' in the UK.


Man the lifeboats.

Posted by: Stardelta (6968) Report abuse
At least they are admitting to borrowing it. Nigeí hasnít told us where he is getting his dosh from.

Posted by: firefox (156) Report abuse
The Brexit party has little to no chance or being elected to form a Government. rather like labour just now.

Posted by: Zanzibar Spangles (3824) Report abuse
TBP gets my vote in Wigan

Posted by: whups (4112)   Report abuse
so your all voting tory then .javid is also borrowing so he can give it to the rich.

Posted by: TerryW (2614) Report abuse
No. Never have and won't.

Posted by: Stardelta (6968) Report abuse
I am having steak and chips tonight,

Posted by: whups (4112)   Report abuse
last time i read that scotland was still part of britian numb nuts .and anyone voting brexit party or the defunked ukip are voting tory.

Posted by: mortarmillbill (473) Report abuse
I am still undecided but I have ruled out Labour.

I have never voted Conservative in my life but I need to follow my head and not my heart.

Ideally Wigan could be better off if it was a marginal seat but this would mean ignoring the Brexit Party and the Labour Party and lots of Wiganers voting Conservative probably for the first time as well.

Posted by: baker boy (14994) Report abuse
is it possible for any politician to have told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth all their political lives,i may be wrong but i seriously doubt it.
remember the lady mp disclosed when she issued this statement ,"its a good day to bury bad news".
promises are not lies ,they are only such when not carried out.

Posted by: Zanzibar Spangles (3824) Report abuse

Posted by: Axcroft (45) Report abuse
Can't imagine it happening with a 16,000 plus majority.† But it's possible.†

I'm sure that a massive chunk of the†13,000 Tory voters would vote for the Brexit Party tactically (Tory voters would love to have an effective vote), regardless of whether there is a formal pact.
††
The big question in Wigan is, would the Labour Brexit voters desert Jeremy/Lisa in big enough numbers?† I'm not so sure.† But still lots of time left in the campaigns for events to happen.

††

Posted by: baker boy (14994) Report abuse
from what i have heard there are quite a lot going over to brexit from labour,is it enough or are we in the political wilderness forever.wigan being a strong hold for labour does zilch for the borough in political circles.

Posted by: tonker (20100)   Report abuse
Wigan being a stronghold for Labour can't be expected to work favours for "the borough" from a Conservative government.

Posted by: baker boy (14994) Report abuse
every company,shop or one man band as to start at some date in time.labour founded in 1900 had to wait 24 years for their first mp,so why is it different for any other organisation .the brexit party is a newcomer, but does it have more mep's than labour.your argument about how long established as no meaning whatsoever.

Posted by: Dave xl5 (329)  Report abuse
To answer the question, No! I neither think they will, or what them to win. I don't like the gravy-trainers of the EU, or the ones over here. I do think if Cameron hadn't failed in his pathetically inept attempt to stop UKIP from winning a few Tory seats by offering a in out referendum, virtually no one today would even be talking about,or even caring about,Brexit today. Three and a half years totally wasted on tearing our selves, and our country apart. And opening the the door wider to the greedy far right, and the dangerously foolish ultra left. Corbyn and the ultras have destroyed the party I have always backed, but no more!. Sorry rant over. Just my opinion.

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (3940) Report abuse
Full Boris video

https://youtu.be/8kbl78aiDFc

How can you not like somebody like that

I used to love Steak & Chips, but I can't get hold of tender steak any more, what ever steak I buy and whatever price I pay and however hard I try to cook it properly, to keep it tender, the bloody thing ends up looking like, and tasting like a piece of shrivelled up leather

But going back to the days of proper steak, going to me butchers in Orrell for a 'SLAB' of Sirloin or Rump, and the butcher would put his knife on the side of beef and say how thick, and I would say as he slid his knife along, "a bit more"

Then I would cook it in butter and garlic, not a lot of garlic, but just enough to bring out the taste of the steak, and served along with real chips, deep fried in a proper chip pon, made with Lincolnshire Maris Pipers, and served with fresh frozen peas, seasoned with salt and pepper and vinegar, and washed down with loads of tea, not coffee or water, but tea and about 12 slices of white bread to make butties with

Posted by: whups (4112)   Report abuse
lets see how much you like them when they sell off the NHS to the yanks & all the free prescriptions go .

Posted by: gaffer (6170)   Report abuse
Whups

The tories were in office for 18 years from 1979. For half of that time they had a parliamentary majority of over 100 seats. They could have done whatever they wanted. Why did they not use the opportunity to Ďnationaliseí the NHS?

Posted by: whups (4112)   Report abuse
be honest gaffer they,ve been cutting away at the NHS since it,s inception but this last lot have nearly killed it off . when johnson strikes a deal with the yanks it will certainly kill it off . try focusing your attention on that instead because i,m quite sure your going to need the NHS in the future & if not you maybe a member of your family , thats if they & you can afford medical insurance.

Posted by: Salmon & Ball (464)  Report abuse
@gaffer.

Maybe they thought better of it after selling the rail, energy and water industries

Posted by: whups (4112)   Report abuse
dont forget BT salmon & ball.

Posted by: Salmon & Ball (464)  Report abuse
Thats another one, Whups. I'd forgot about that there has been that many sold

"The way our rail, energy and water industries have been run since they were sold off by the Conservatives is an absolute scandal."

"When these industries were privatised under Margaret Thatcher, we were promised it would increase efficiency, widen share ownership and generate investment. But the opposite happened. And rather than learning from their mistakes, the Conservative-led Coalition Government sold off Royal Mail for a fraction of its value, at the taxpayersí expense, and extended the grip of private companies and finance further into day-to-day life.

Almost three decades after water was sold-off, share ownership is now largely in the hands of a small group of international investors Ė many of them based in tax havens. Meanwhile, prices have increased by 40 per cent and over a quarter of the amount consumers pay on bills goes towards servicing debt interest and paying out dividends."

From the Independent.

Posted by: gaffer (6170)   Report abuse
S and B

The NHS doctors, both hospital doctors and the GP's in private practice, would never work under the American health care system.
It couldn't be made available to American providers, in any trade deal, unless it was in the election manifesto of a party wanting to be in goverment. It wouldn't get the support of the voters supporting any party in such an event.
The odds are that the EU UK trade deal will include health care. Most of the NHS prescription drugs and diagnostic equipment are sourced from within the EU.
The latest statistics from the major London hospitals regarding stabbing victims shows a marked reduction in fatalities arising from newly devloped protocols. Further proof that large specialist hospitals working in conjunction with highly trained paramedics is the future for the more serious aspects of health care. The more that people fight against reconfiguration of the NHS towards that goal then the more that the lesser demanding services will continue to be put to tender.

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (3940) Report abuse
Yes and I agree that the utilities should have not been sold off, but I disagree with that idiot wanting to nationalise them all at once, which will bankrupt the country, it should be done on a piece by piece basis, the ones in most priority like the railways should be the first to be taken back into state ownership.

Posted by: tonker (20100)   Report abuse
Stabbing victims are a piss in the ocean, Gaffer, when related to the Health Service as a whole.
I was told, by a person who works in the health service, that a big problem is foreign nationals using the service. And their foreign relatives.

When (if) the UK eventually leaves the EU, will it ease this burden on the UK health service?

Posted by: nightchap (301)  Report abuse
I just wish ALL the political parties would stop trying to out do each other to get votes by borrowing yet more money.

Posted by: tonker (20100)   Report abuse
They HAVE to borrow money to pay off the DEBT!

Posted by: whups (4112)   Report abuse
what about the EU health card tonker , you never mention it when we use it in the EU ?.

Posted by: broady (15089)   Report abuse
Buy travel insurance?

Posted by: whups (4112)   Report abuse
the only reason you buy travel insurance is because it covers an air ambulance if it,s needed.

Posted by: baker boy (14994) Report abuse
the nhs will not pursue foreign nationals too hard for their expenditure ,why maybe legal costs.

Posted by: tonker (20100)   Report abuse
You don't need an 'EU health card' and 'travel insurance' is for holidaymakers.

Posted by: whups (4112)   Report abuse
it,s there to ensure you get free medical insurance when your in an EU country .if you dont take it then it,s your own fault .we will no doubt lose it when we leave the EU.

Posted by: John59 (453)   Report abuse
I see a lot of people are going back to the late 70's as they're Making Plans For Nigel.

It's quite interesting because new Labour (that's what they are, not true socialist labour) won't comit to getting out of europe so the 'betrayed' vote will go to the other parties. Could be a really messy hung parliament (they should be bearing in mind their behavious blocking brexit for no good reson.
I mean, do they seriously think the EU are ready to negotiate ? ... or maybe they've all been on another planet for the last 3 1/2 years

Posted by: John59 (453)   Report abuse
as far as getting the tories out, so many will be thnking back to the early 80's and how bad a state of social affairs it as then, and saying " we'll just have to be patient and Save It For Later"

Posted by: FAT MICK (255) Report abuse
Vote Tory

Posted by: whups (4112)   Report abuse
hope you,ve got plenty money fat mick as you,ll need it for your private medical insurance when the torys get in.

Posted by: dougie (3819)   Report abuse
How could you expect me to vote Tory with a Grandfather on my mothers side a miners Union leader and Labour member like this in the family, they tell me grandfather on Dads side was a stronger Labour party member, I've never agreed with anything that's been nationalized other the the coal mines before nationalization it was like a death trap down the pits.

===-Don't play this song-----

Posted by: dougie (3819)   Report abuse
As for the national health being sold off I too think it's coming as whups said, think about it in 1940 I came into this world in 1943 I was in isolation hospital with diphtheria that Mum/Dad had to pay the Doctor six pence a week medical bill for a family of 9 so think of the Doctors bill they had,then up popes Labour nationalizes the new NHS and clears everyone's doctors bill,this could well happen again under the Tories only you would be paying for high insurance as whups say's
-------Vote Labour even if people think your a Donkey---

Posted by: priscus (7609) Report abuse
6d a week for a family of nine would have been incredibly cheap.

My mother was paying half a crown a week just for me at the inception of NHS.

The National Insurance Stamp in 1947 was 4/- a week.

(I have a 1947 NI card in front of me as I type, it has four bob stamps on it.)

Posted by: FAT MICK (255) Report abuse
Dougie me and my family have always voted Labour but now Ive become more wiser and wealthier Ive gone Tory.

Posted by: dougie (3819)   Report abuse
It was past down in the family as 6d a week the Doctor never expected the bill to be paid off, I'm talking about the Doctors man coming round every week collecting for him in them days the Doctor didn't expect to to get a final settlement, I was told if he moved on the debt was sold with the practice

Mick--I'm wealthy and content in many ways are I wouldn't have packed my job in at 60

Posted by: FAT MICK (255) Report abuse
Dougie you might think your wealthy and content and packed up work, but lets face it you havent really lived have you.

Posted by: TerryW (2614) Report abuse
Labour today is nothing like the Labour of yesteryear, no resemblance or ethos of those true socialists.

Posted by: priscus (7609) Report abuse
As was said in the TV Drama 'Peaky Blinders'

Politics is about making somebody better off by making someone else poorer.

So, we could debate who deserves what, ........

but in practice it seems we divide between those wishing to preserve the status quo, and those who are dissatisfied with it. Though this time round, it seems both dominant groups want to go BACKWARDS, just disagree about the manner in which we should pursue the deterioration.

Posted by: gaffer (6170)   Report abuse
Dougie

You donít realise how much the Labour Party has changed since your grandparents day. They may well have reservations about an automatic vote for Labour if they were here today.
I was chatting to a former a Labour MP a few months ago who doesnít feel welcome anymore at meetings of the local constituency Labour Party.
In the same way the NHS has changed beyond recognition since itís inception in 1948.
Talk to anyone of lengthy service in the NHS and they will tell you how much waste and excess cost there is. The cost of second class postage for patientís letters runs out at over £80 million a year. Itís exactly the same process as in 1948 apart from the scale. Text or email for the patients with those facilities would slash that cost to almost zero as well as the associated administrative costs.
Litigation from patients costs about £2.5 billion a year. There is no quality assurance scheme in the NHS that would reduce that cost of liability.
In 1948 air travel was considered hazardous, nowadays itís the safest form of travel mainly because of the continuous improvement arising from quality assurance principles.
The NHS needs clinically led reform but it is stymied because any attempt to do so results in mass protests of privatisation.
Back to the election. Very few, if any, electors would vote for an NHS under the influence of the US administration as part of a trade deal.
In my view, as Iíve said before, the NHS faces a future more in Europe rather than across the Atlantic.

Posted by: priscus (7609) Report abuse
I have the option to receive both my GP, and hospital appointments on line. (Two different systems: GPs administered by the practice - rest are a University Hospitals provision.)

However, I choose NOT to, as I live somewhere with extremely unreliable broadband: I would miss appointments as high risk of failing to receive comms. (Monopoly crap broadband- cannot choose an alternative supplier. I would if I could, 'cause not only crap but very expensive)

Posted by: priscus (7609) Report abuse
NHS needs to sort out its incompetent and corrupt management!

Posted by: broady (15089)   Report abuse
Gaffer,
I look forward to your well informed posts. I am sure you are aware that stating facts is frowned upon by some of the repetitive labour stalwarts on here.

Posted by: whups (4112)   Report abuse
yes & those who profess to be labour then declare there voting tory ? .but gaffer when i stated there was a shortfall of 40,000 nurses you decried me & said it was only 20,000 . what do you say now ? .and about the deal with the yanks which would put an extra 25 billion on our drug bill which currently stands at around 18 billion taking it to around 43- 45 billion & you said the same thing . what do you say now , try to be concise with your reply as it gets rather boring & to long .

Posted by: Zanzibar Spangles (3824) Report abuse
This deal that puts 25billion on the drug bill, where is this information from?

Posted by: broady (15089)   Report abuse
Whups,
You really do make a muddle of things people say. There is no LABOUR party in Canada. That means voting Conservative means a totally different thing. The government is actually Liberal. Please read and attempt to absorb.

Posted by: whups (4112)   Report abuse
try reading a paper or listen the news . i told people on here around 3 weeks ago about a dispaches program about this very subject when the torys have had 5 meetings with yank drug cartels 2 in america & 3 in london . i,m sure if you research it instead of mouthing off you,ll realise that it,s true.i dont care about canadian policies , but you did state you were voting tory did,nt you ? .

Posted by: grimshaw (2015)  Report abuse
When i give food to the poor they call me a saint .

When i ask WHY the poor have no food .

They call me a communist .

Posted by: grimshaw (2015)  Report abuse
Never be afraid to raise your voice for honesty ,for compassion and truth ,against injustice ,lying and greed .

If people over the world would do this it would change the earth .

Posted by: gaffer (6170)   Report abuse
Whups

The guy from Liverpool University who compiled the report you refer to was interviewed by Andrew Neil last week. He wasnít convincing with his answers especially when Andrew Neil said that American friends of his nipped over the border into Canada to buy their prescription drugs. Canada has a free trade deal with the US.
When President Trump rails against Americans overpaying for drugs he puts Canada in the same frame as the EU, including the UK. He does, however, have a point in that the US drug bill, converted to Sterling, of around £300 billion would be less than half of that figure based on European pricing. His problem is that very few administrators in the US are willing to investigate it along the lines of a European Competion inquiry or the UK control mechanism NICE.
If the Tories win the election with a decent majority Iíll have a £100 wager with you. At the end of the next Parliament the NHS will still be buying drugs on the present pricing basis. The Langley Health Bill will be amended to give more control of patient care to clinicians and the upper limit for the amount of private sector involvement with patients will be reduced nearer to the customary level of 6%.

Posted by: whups (4112)   Report abuse
trump says he cant do deals that give prices less than the american public so no deals there .we will see who,s right gaffer & putting meaningless bets on here mirrors that idiot laughing gravy .now what about the nurse shortages , HOW MANY .

Posted by: dougie (3819)   Report abuse
Quote by Mick--Dougie you might think your wealthy and content and packed up work, but lets face it you havent really lived have you.

Mick--it should said say I'm not wealthy but content in many ways are I wouldn't have packed my job in at 60 (an old saying I've got) you've not reached my age yet and all the money in the world will not get you there but I hope you do

Posted by: whups (4112)   Report abuse
and what price your health dougie , priceless.

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (3940) Report abuse
Hang a minute here, cos I am getting confused

Britain leaves the EU and as a result the NHS can buy its drugs from anywhere in the world, as long as the quality of those drugs is up to British standards, then surely the NHS will go for the best price, but on the basis of not just using one supplier, but using several in case one particular supplier has a problem, and it cannot supply the drug, and that what I have just described is 'logistics'

I would have thought that under those circumstances, market forces will bring down the cost of drugs, not put them up ...

How say you on that Whupsie

Posted by: baker boy (14994) Report abuse
gaffer
quite right re postage,as a regular though unwilling attender at clinics,the waste is stupifying.i get two texts then a letter, why ?.i visited a friend quite recently in hospital and i took him a decent razor.
his words on receipt of that razor,was how the hell did you know i needed the razor.
well i too had been in hospital recently and the buyers of those razors and by the way they have cupboards full of the useless items must be ladies.
my attempt at a shave with one of those stuck on my chin and would not cut through my two day old stubble .painful,horrible and completely useless and the staff know all about them and yet they keep on purchasing rubbish products.

Posted by: baker boy (14994) Report abuse
ps how many other poor quality items are purchased by the nhs that are not up to scratch.

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (3940) Report abuse
NHS Bog Paper is crap too

Posted by: baker boy (14994) Report abuse
then there's the staff pilfering

 
 
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