Cardyhills

What's your stand on the BREXIT question, I only ask as you are a new member and I'm a nosy sod.

you've never asked me Terry, So I'll tell thee anyroad;

exiting from the EU was a far too important question to ask joe bloggs because we don't know the implications, We pay the MP's to make those decisions for us, Everyone i knoe voted out because they thought it would stop the immigration, full stop,
So firstly the Gov't copped out and now they don't want out so they are making a U turn,
In the words of Mark twain,

If they thought it would make any difference, They would't let us vote,

Tom,
That echoes everything I have heard. The man in the street has no idea of tariffs etc. and those I spoke/listened to were concerned with lack of school places, long waits for appointments in the doctors and perceived benefits being paid to newcomers. Before someone jumps all over me I did say perceived and they get that information from the dailies.

Thanks for the question, TerryW.

At first I, like many others, thought that Brexit could be a positive outcome for the UK. I was taken in by the so called 'brexiteers' rhetoric and propaganda; 'make our own laws, more money to spend on the NHS, stop being dictated to by Merkel, control immigration etc..' It sounded like a logical idea at the time.

But now, 3 years later, what can one say??? It's a mess, isn't it? It's as clear as day that our so called MP's (the men and women who are paid handsomely to represent the people) have failed their constituents. A small toxic clique have now infested the front benches of the Tory party and turned it into an ultra right wing laughing stock. Boris Johnson is a lying buffoon who doesn't know his a*se from his elbow! He is doing precisely nothing to get a deal in Brussels, whilst simultaneously telling the cameras that he's working tirelessly to get one! See what I mean?...Laughable!

All this stems from the fact that the British people were afraid. Fear came out in huge numbers at the ballot box and sadly it was all done in such a ram-shackled way that the electorate didn't have time to educate themselves properly, and allowed themselves to be duped by Boris' big red bus and Farage's divide & conquer strategy to get his grubby little hands on the keys to Number 10.

Populism, austerity & fear were the main components of the Brexit debacle and now that our MP's have failed us and we are faced with a NO DEAL scenario, every leave voter should seriously ask themselves: 'Is this what we really voted for?'

Well written but what do you think of the Labour leadership? 60% ofLabour constituencies voted leave, the leader of the party pledged to respect the result of the referendum, there are lots of you tube clips in which he condemns the EU but yet the party are doing their best to stop Brexit. Is this a case of party politics taking precedence other the wish of the people who voted? I don’t think anyone knows what the consequences of a no deal Brexit will be.

Broady, Labour will never back a no deal brexit. Not in a million years. Of course party politics are at play, JC knows that many of his constituents (and tory party rebels) voted to leave with a deal and are highly skeptical of leaving without one (along with many academics and business insiders on both sides of the house). Corbyn will try anything he can to bring down the government and that includes frustrating brexit to the endth degree, because that is what the leader of the opposition is supposed to do!

I think JC faces huge problems as leader of the opposition, not least from within his own party. Many Labour party voters despise him and his socialist ideals and I can see the brexit party hoovering up many of the 60% of leave voters you mention when a general election does eventually take place.

At the end of the day people voted to leave because they 'thought' it would make their country better. It is true that nobody knows for sure what will happen in a no deal scenario, but all the signs now firmly point to that it will be a catastrophe for the UK and everyone will feel the effects of it, one way or another.

Sorry folks I got called away yesterday.

Thanks for your reply, Cardyhills, an excellent reply I may add. I'm not saying I agree with all you say but I appreciate the way you put your points across.

Anytime Terry!

Some excellent comments from previous posters.
I have never ever wavered from my original thoughts of Brexit.
We should leave the EU ASAP, the date is irrelevant, also are the terms. we can sort the details out as we go along.
Our contributions to the Eu outweigh the money we get back, ie we are keeping the weaker economies like Greece afloat.
We can put our 350 million pounds a week (allegedly) back into our economy to support the NHS and also replace the farmer’s CAP funding.
We should kick the European fishing industry out of our waters and get our British fishermen back in work to fish our own waters to supply our own country but also to sell back to Europe, free from European quotas.
A particular thorn in my side is the right of the European Courts to overrule our British High Court’s rulings, this would be nullified.
Brexit means Brexit!!!!!!!!
What really annoys me is that Labour and the Lib Dems seem hell bent on keeping us in the EU, the British people overall voted to leave the EU whatever happened to democracy!!!!!!!!!.

I agree, let's get out.

It is quite simple, the EU have offered us a crap deal, which leaves us too closely tied to the EU and that crap deal is only the start, the negotiations will go on for years and interfere with the UK's relationship with the rest of the world.

So for me it should be a no deal Brexit and tell the EU to get stuffed, and take it from there

We managed alright up until 1974 and when we joined the the EEC prices went up

The world has changed a lot since 1974!

Today's global world relies on nations co-operating together harmoniously, allowing free trade with little or no restrictions and freedom of movement between peoples of member states. Leaving with No Deal is cutting off ones nose to spite ones face. The UK will easily be the biggest losers in just about every aspect of this shambles, whilst the rest of the EU continue trading with each other, relatively unaffected by the decision downing street will have taken.

There are absolutely no benefits to No Deal for the UK as far as I can see. Granted it hasn't happened yet and who knows, it could be the best thing that ever happened to us 10 years down the line. However, right now I just can't see it. The outlook is grim and with that clown Boris at the helm (hopefully not for much longer) I am yet to see even a dim flicker of a light at the end of the tunnel.

I could not agree more, cardyhills.
That was very, very, well typed.
We'll have to wait and see what the outcome is.
I am not optimistic about the future of our country with a no deal
Time will tell

all lovey dovey stuff about nations being harmonious to one and another .the EU is a cabal,wanting only to deal within itself, blocking member nations from trading freely with the outside world.common market laughable to hear that notion mentioned.

the main culprit from accepting a deal is our jeremy a confirmed eurosceptic.beggar's belief he wears a two toned coat.
the other a weak and remainer prime minister,who turns up after three years with a crap deal.

I'm glad you liked my reply, Salmon & Ball.

It is true that only time will tell with regards to a No Deal outcome. Though I am willing to wager that we will be considerably worse off (at least in the initial 18 months, possibly extending to a decade or more) if we are to leave without one rather than with a deal. Watching the news at 10 tonight it is even clearer to me now that Boris is doing sweet FA in terms of negotiating. The mans body language speaks volumes...

Lie away Boris. It will be your political career that ends up down the toilet in the end!
(It will be very interesting to see what the supreme court has to say later today)...

I know exactly what I voted for.
and nobody will tell me I didn't

Laura Kuenssberg tied him in knots with basic questions.
He is incapable of giving a straight answer.
Then the Luxembourg prime minister had a go at him!

Salmon & Ball * Cardyhills

So you both don't like the Tories, and you are both passionate Labour Party supporters, which is your democratic right, so now that is out of the way, lets talk about leaving the EU the pro's and cons, and may I remind you that this is a cross party matter, members from all parties want to remain in the EU as there are members from all parties who want to leave the EU, because your arguments are just being directed personally at individuals, so to do the same, I could take a swipe at Boris who just wants to enact the will of the British people, and then take a swipe at Jeremy who does not want to enact the will of the British people

However, that makes me out in your eyes to be a Tory Party supporter, which in fact is not the case, because I don't support any political party, it is only on election day that I decide which party to vote for

Tommy Two Stroke, the Tories have single handedly destroyed the UK over the past decade. They have turned us into a quasi-balkanized rogue state, self obsessed with it's own importance to the point of narcissism.

They are selfish beyond measure and this new look Tory front bench that has been cobbled together out of sheer desperation is nothing short of frightening! Priti Patel is literally chompin' at the bit to bring the hangman back into town now she is home secretary...

Surely this cannot be Great Britain in 2019?
Please tell me I'm dreaming???

Whatever

I don't support any political party, it is only on election day that I decide which party to vote for


All labour voters are idiots..

We can narrow it down though.

Tommy.
I'm a remainer.
The way it looks at this moment in time I may not be around to reap ( If Any ) benefits that leaving the EU will bring by the time the country and economy is sorted. That includes a deal, or no deal.
In my opinion anyone in their mid 60's or over who voted to leave will have to wait a long time to see if their vote has benefited them. I hope I'm wrong.

Nothing wrong in being an advocate of capital punishment. I'm in favour myself.

Capital punishment doesn't do anything though. Criminals still commit crime with or without the death penalty. Just look at America, hardly a great advert for reinstating it are they?

Next you'll be telling me that old bill should be allowed to carry guns

From what I read of all those “ in the know” no one is actually 100% sure of what will happen if/when the UK leaves the EU but WW is full of people with that knowledge.

broady plenty countrys do just fine without the eu so can we

Chatty

"All labour voters are idiots"

I presume you are quoting me from a post

just try telling those at vauxall we can manage without the EU.

Capital punishment makes sure they never do it again. How many have been released from prison only to kill/rape again? Wouldn't let the police carry guns in this country, they can't be trusted.

That aside, we will do just fine out of the EU, have a little faith.

How many have been released from prison only to kill/rape again?

How many have been jailed then released after a miscarriage of justice?
No way back for them with Capital punishment.

Whups

At it’s peak in 1974 the Vauxhall plant at Ellesmere Port employed 12,000 people.
Before David Cameron announced that there would be an EU referendum the headcount had fallen to 1800.
There are two threats to Vauxhall’s future. If the French parent company takes action to correct the excess capacity in the Opel factories. It will involve factory closures in Germany and may have a knock on effect at Vauxhall.
However, the bigger threat to Ellesmere Port comes from the inevitable change of basic architecture in future models which will be based on Peugeot platforms rather than General Motors platforms.
There is over capacity in the Peugeot/Citroen factories in France which is probably one of the most difficult places to close a factory. Given that the French Government owns almost 14% of Peugeot/Citroen the odds on Vauxhall surviving in it’s present form are slim.
In my view one of the two Vauxhall plants will close. If The Ellesmere Port plant can be re jigged to incorporate the Luton van production then it may well survive and prosper.

"No way back for them with Capital punishment."

DNA can and does make sure the right person is punished.

Tell that to Barry George who spent years in jail for the murder of Jill Dando before being released, he would have swung back in the days of Capital punishment.

Aye, Chatty. Spot on.

What about this gentleman as well?
Stefan Kiszko
DNA didn't help this poor soul

Gaffer,
Thanks for that mate.

bullshit posts ,"the tories have destroyed britain over the last ten years" ,what about the ten years of bliar and brown.
the greatest economist in living history leads us into the economic wilderness,his spending policies will be matched by the other great socialist/commie leader our jeremy, when he taxes us all into the workhouse.
do not be fooled by the rich will be stung ,the poorer amongst us will taste the economic bitterness as well.
what labour government has had a successful economic policy.ANSWER NONE.

That's right S&B a very distressing case indeed.
There's been too many over the years!

There are many criminals that have been proved by 100% DNA results that should have been hung instead of being kept by the tax payers. Tell that to Fusilier Lee Rigby's family who had to watch their son being killed onthe news and the families of the children murdered by Hindley and Brady, then we have Rose and Fred and terrorists, and far many more to mention.

That doesn't address your claim that:
'DNA can and does make sure the right person is punished'.
Which is clearly incorrect.
Unfortunatly hanging innocent people for crimes they didn't commit would not bring any of the above back.

In regards the financial crash of 2008, it may help to read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007%E2%80%932008

It mentions:
Sub-Prime mortgages.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Lehman Brothers. The largest bankruptcy in history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_in_the_United_States

No where does it mention that Gordon Brown caused the crash, or was in anyway responsible.

He is given credit for stemming the crisis in this article.
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/opinion/13krugman.html

As far as brexit is concerned, I still believe that it will be an economic disaster for Britain.

Britain's contribution to the EU is not 350 million per week, but don't let facts get in the way of a story.

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

The UK budget is over £2,000 billion pounds.
The UK contribution is under £10 billion.

A lot of money, but only 0.05% of the total budget.
Not a bad club to be in. Look at the advantages.
https://smallbusinessprices.co.uk/remain-eu/

Gordon Brown was a one eyed Scottish nutter ....

Some people started to talk sense on here
It was bound to happen,Vote labour.

you can put facts on all you want gaffer but peugeot have been looking for an excuse to leave for the last 18 months . watch this space to see who,s right .

Whups

The French outfit own too many factories making two few cars. This will be exacerbated with the switch to electrically powered vehicles.
They own two factories in England neither of which has the critical mass to give the return on capital that PSA are looking for. It's an excuse to keep it open that they are looking for irrespective of the Brexit outcome.

Wigan diver

Gordon Brown inherited a strong economy with the current account in balance. He left with a structural deficit of around £180 billion.
He changed financial regulation from a single system of responsibility to a tripartite one and later admitted it was a mistake, he hadn’t realised the scale of the entanglements of global institutions.
The three different bodies regulating the UK financial services sector were not effectively monitoring the banks and building societies.
Northern Rock were doling out 125% mortgages and relying on the money markets to fund their expansion. The rise in interest rates left Northern Rock in a desperate situation leading to the bail out.
Bradford and Bingley building society were allowing mortgage applicants to self-certify income without independent checks until the bubble burst and another bail out.
The biggest failure of all was the Royal Bank of Scotland, along with two European banks, purchase of the Dutch Bank ABN Amro which turned out to be full of toxic assets. This led to the Government taking a controlling stake in RBS.
It is doubtful that any of the above would have happened under the previous system of regulation.
However, the biggest single decision, his worst, he made at the start of the banking crisis was to veto Barclay’s decision to buy Lehman Brothers. This led to the collapse of the bank and was a major cause of the worldwide banking crisis.

A lot of the blame for the collapse goes back to the repeal of The Glass Steagall act of 1933. This was introduced to stop a repeat of the 1929 crash, which caused the Great Depression. It was repealed under the Clinton administration.

https://www.thebalance.com/glass-steagall-act-definition-purpose-and-repeal-3305850

This led to banks being "too big to fail", so they had to be bailed out, and that is what Brown and Darling were forced to do in the UK, otherwise the whole financial system would have collapsed.

£500 Billion was spent on bailing out the banks, which explains the deficit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_Kingdom_bank_rescue_package

The "light touch", on banking was the prevailing wisdom of all parties. And you know what; George Osborne agreed.

If Brown did "veto Barclay’s decision to buy Lehman Brothers" he did them a favour, as Lehman Brothers went bust, as the biggest bankruptcy in history.

Barclays bought Lehman Brothers AFTER the crash for a bargain basement price.

https://smallbusinessprices.co.uk/remain-eu/

"It has been five years since Lehman Brothers went bankrupt and five years since Barclays picked up the US business for just $250 million. It was a steal, and one that has changed the trajectory of the domestically heavy retail bank and DCM house to that of a global financial institution."

Like I said, Gordon Brown was a one eyed Scottish tit

Where does everybody stand on the NHS?

Is this to be protected at all costs or shall it be sold at auction to Donald and his republican cronies across the pond?

I had a very heated debate with a friend of mine last month, he is a leaver, firmly on the right wing and a resolute capitalist. I was trying to explain to him that the NHS is a socialist construct (in the sense of people all clubbing together for a common good that benefits everyone) and if he dislikes the idea of socialism so much then he might want to seek private hospital treatment in future. He just could not get his head around that, branded me a communist and then proceeded to go on a rant about how he paid his stamps like everyone else!

Some people just do not get it...

"Some people just do not get it..."

In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.

Define what is a politically right wing person and what is a politically left wing person, and what is a socialist ???

Posted by: cardyhills (19) Report abuse

Where does everybody stand on the NHS?


I dunno

Hello all, I have read all this thread and I don't want to partake really, but can I just say that as a Gammon or Coffin Dodger (as we are affectionately known) the immigration didn't bother me. My concern was the cost of the pensions for this layer of Government. We know that Kinnock's pension is over £1m a year (and he was never a PM!) The Withdrawal Treaty handed to May contained a Mandelson clause whereby no EU workers pay tax on their pensions. When Tusk met May for the first time on nevotiations he said "Britain must honour its' share of pensions'
I fear for my grandchildren who will have to pay these pensions. It is like a ripple. At the moment sustainable but the EU is 40 years old.
During the Brexit debate I asked my MEP, MP and in a televised forum for an answer.
Our industries have been taken off us and spread across europe, how are we to pay for this?

Wiki isn't very reliable anyone can put their four penneth in and edit whenever they please.

cardyhills are you sure your not aka whups,if your not your his brother.
nhs sold out to trump,where do you get this far fetched left wing bullshit.

A very good place for Brexit info is Briefings for Brexit. Some good points made on there .

"nhs sold out to trump,where do you get this far fetched left wing bullshit."

Try reading, or researching.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/donald-trump-nhs-trade-deal-woody-johnson-matt-hancock-a8940861.html

"A very good place for Brexit info is Briefings for Brexit. Some good points made on there ."

By a pro brexit organisation. Not exactly unbiased.

Very good posts / debate glad I am not affected by Brexitt Your decision. Best of luck

Wigan diver. I merely said there were some good points made on there, hard to oppose some of them. I can't get answers to points I make from remainers. If you can show me a comparable remainer site, I'd love to visit. (Not the Guardian or BBC - already go there).

https://smallbusinessprices.co.uk/remain-eu/

what part of where paying thro the nose to be used by europe dont remainers understand.
europe is the smallest continent, the world awaits.

I hope the world has a lot of patience.

The UK will be ripped to pieces in trade talks.
A minnow amongst sharks.

"We are paying through the nose !"
0.05% of the total UK budget. Not bad subs considering all the advantages.
https://smallbusinessprices.co.uk/remain-eu/

The world will become our oyster

"The world will become our oyster"

I agree with chatty and s+b

"The world will become our oyster"

Just hope you don't have an allergy to shell fish.

so you dont think gordon brown did any good then 1stroke ? .

We need to out and away from the EU. I voted to bring us out and I want my vote to stand.

under any circumstances ? .

Stop asking difficult questions.

Enjoy your weekend. We are off for another trip.

Not abroad this time.

Of course under any circumstances, that's why I voted.

so when people lose their jobs because of you it dosent bother you ? .

They are so deluded and taken in by the tory old etonian elite they can see the big picture whups .
We have the biggest trading block in the world on our doorstep and the leave numps want to end it and rely on deals with chump trump .
The mind boggles that they are blind to it all .and dont give a monkeys about the unemployment it will all cause ,and dont get me going about the irish border and the huge threat to the good friday agreement .

I can't answer that because we haven't left the EU yet. But if that's the case there isn't a lot I can do about it. But I voted out and that is what I want.

People involved have no idea what will happen to be honest but it seems all the well educated economists on here have all the answers. Time will tell. They may be right but if wrong I am sure they will acknowledge the fact.

Double post. Sorry.

Very interesting

Italian economist explain brexit

ZS explains what

It was just the title, but good warch

not if you dont speak the lingo!

Labour crisis: Corbyn branded ‘worst leader Labour has ever had’ by his own MPs

JEREMY CORBYN has been branded the worst Labour leader the party has ever had in a shocking rant by a former MP who jumped ship when the veteran left-winger attempted to block Brexit.

Ian Austin joined forces with a group of Labour MPs - past and present - to urge Mr Corbyn to “detach himself from the cult” after a new poll revealed he is now less popular than Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson who is actively trying to cancel Brexit. The ballot found that when the British public was asked who would make the best Prime Minister, 41 percent said current Tory leader Boris Johnson, 21 percent said Ms Swinson and just 18 percent said Mr Corbyn, the Daily Telegraph repots. Mr Austin said: “This confirms what the vast majority of Labour MPs know in their hearts to be true: that Jeremy Corbyn is the worst leader Labour has ever had and that he is completely unfit to lead the party or the country.”

The independent MP added: “He is not only completely incapable of leadership, but has spent his entire time working with all sorts of extremists, his views are completely out of step with the vast majority of the public and he has allowed the party to be poisoned by racism and extremism.”

i have an allergy to frogs legs.