Wigan Album

Keith Beckett: I bet your proud of this photo Keith and Quite right to, I would be mighty impressed if you state that she drove half way home. ( Keep on trucking).

That's brilliant Keith. As a kid of 13 or 14, I used to haunt Fred Rose's garage. I used to ride my bike from Garswood to Blackrod every Saturday morning, then ride back home again at teatime, a round trip of about 16 miles, just to spend 3 or 4 hours doing menial jobs around the garage in exchange for being allowed to sit in the wagons. Sounds daft I know. The Foden was probably a little bit before my time. I remember the fleet at the time consisting mainly of KV cabbed E.R.F. 8 leggers with 150 Gardners and one or two Seddon artics. I've been trying to find some photos of Fred Rose's wagons for quite some time but I've only managed to find one up to present, and that one is actually a photo of the shunt loco, I think it's called DOUGLAS, taken at Cooke & Nuttall's paper mill at Horwich, with one of Rose's E.R.F.s in the background. Fred Rose, and his son Kenneth had quite a substantial business, with a fleet of about 15 wagons ( possibly more ) and a second depot on the A5 near Luton, so I find it odd that whenever I mention the name of the company, all I get in return is a blank stare. Many thanks for posting this mate and pardon me if I appear to be a little bit excited. Regards. Ozy.

My Father was still working at Fred Rose, when they closed. As far as I remember he was a Tramper.

Ozy. When I started work in 1958 the firm I worked for had a
1934 Foden it had a 5LW Gardner engine in 100 BHP I think
this Foden had a6LW engine in 120bhp they started putting
6LX 150 bhp engines in the early 60s one of F Rose's wagons
came down Castle Hill Hindley carrying newsprint reels of
paper the reels came off and killed a teenage girl I went
to school with, I remember F Rose trucks very well D.C.

I suspect the majority of Fred Rose's drivers would have been what you call ' trampers ' Janice. Was your dad away from home all week?....They would also have employed one or two shunters, and quite a few trunkers no doubt. The trunkers would have been running down to ' The Smoke ' every evening, using the old A6 via Manchester And Stockport, ( no M6 in those days. ), Whaley Bridge and Long Hill to Buxton, then on to Derby and all points south. Either that or heading north on the same A6 through Preston, Kendal, over Shap to Carlisle to join the A 74 to Glasgow. These were the ' Halcyon days ', albeit hard days of road transport in my opinion. The days when wagon drivers had the time, and more importantly, the inclination to help each other....Unlike today unfortunately. ( Derrick Cunliiffe knows what I'm talking about ). And a few other older drivers as well no doubt. I never knew your father Janice, but if, as you say he drove for Fred Rose in the 50's/ 60's, then to my mind he was hero. Regards. Ozy.

I bet it was hard work starting that engine, on a cold and frosty morning with that starting handle, you had to crank right, other wise the kick-back could damage your hand and arm. I've see it happen before. Thankfully we invented starter motors.That small lorry would have been awful to drive.

I've just thought on, Fred Rose's London depot was on the old A5, Watling Street, near Borehamwood, not Luton, as I stated previously.

It would have taken a long time to get to Dundee and back in 1956 with no motorway.
He would have had to find digs as well, I wonder if Moffat cafe was open in those days.

Imagine going up Scotch in the middle of winter in that thing Jimmy. Grinding up Shap fully freighted in a blizzard, with no heater and only one windscreen wiper. First stop the Jungle cafe. No wonder they erected a monument to those drivers on Shap summit. Ive known some of these modern day, so called Class one, Prima Donna ' steering wheel attendants ' refuse to take a motor out if the radio was crackling. They'd turn pale and keel over if they were asked to handball 16 tons onto a flat, sheet and rope it, drive it 200 miles then handball it off again. And then doss down in the cab with a railway overcoat for a blanket. The good old days eh ?

Yes Jimmy your right, and with max speed 30 MPH.
Does anyone remember granfathers rights.

Keith, thank you for this photo it really brings back childhood memories. Has a child in the early 1950s I would sit at the Finger Post or on top of Highfield Delf just to watch Rose's lorries chugging along under heavy load often with steam belching from radiator caps. In the 1960s when I left school I went into transport, firstly has a second mate then later has a driver and remained in this trade for 50 years until my retirement in 2010 though not for Fred Rose I may add)

Gary, Your.wrong again the speed limit then was 20MPH NOT
30 MPH they used to have a 20 MPH sign on the rear of the
truck, This how you spell GRANDFATHER,not how you spelled
it D.C.

Yes Garry, it was around 1970ish when I got my HGV licence through grandfather rights.

If the pic was taken in 1956, the speed limit for lorries over 3 tons was still 20 mph. I can remember seeing lorries with 20 plates when I was a child - in fact, I've still got a dinky from those days with one on. The limit was raise to 30 in 1957 - read Hansard for a glowing report on lorry drivers:
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lords/1957/feb/26/motor-vehicles-variation-of-speed-limit

Hi Ozy,

Once the engine cover had warmed up it wasn't cold in the cab. You're right about the handballing it was hard work.
The fuel pump on that generation of six cylinder Gardners was fitted with a governor control rod. This had a groove at one end that could be aligned with a slot in the pump casting. A 'thick' penny from the 19th century could be wedged between the groove and slot to wedge the governor rod open. This added 5 to 7 mph to the top speed but created unburnt diesel smoke from the exhaust. Fortunately the owners didn't keep a fuel used log in those days.
During that era Fred Rose was known as a night and day company. The drivers did both the trunk and shunt work by working very excessive hours. One of the reasons for the demise of the company was that they didn't adjust to the tightening of driver's hours regulations. Operating costs continued to partly reflect the lower costs of night and day rather than trunk and shunt.

I meant 30 MPH down hill Derick.
Does anyone know what is Grandfathers rights mean and it's not a trick question.

Keith it was known as Advance and retard rod.

That's correct Jimmy, the qualifying period for obtaining the H.G.V. licence under grandfather rights was during 1969. That's when I got mine. There were 8 levels of entitlement back then, Class one encompassing them all. The first licences were black and not too dissimilar to the old U.K. passport before they introduced that red European abomination. They then changed them to a similar sized brown one you may recall, before replacing them with a piece of paper. Then when they brought the photo licences in, the entitlement groups were printed on the back of the plastic card. I allowed mine to lapse recently when they introduced that daft DCPC nonsense. Besides, the government started giving me copious amounts of dosh just for staying at home in bed.

I never would have realised that Hansard would have made such interesting reading David. Amusing also. These lords certainly have a quaint way of coining a phrase. I shall probably recall Lord Mancroft's statement the next time I find myself " bowl(ing) along quite merrily at 30 miles per hour ". Regards. Ozy.

Thank you for that, Ozzy ( Hope you don't mind, but much easier to spell). My Father had one of the "drive anything Licences, in fact I still have it. He was away most of the week sometimes well over a week. I well remember my Mother in tears one New Years Eve, as my Father had gone missing ( no mobile phones in those days). It turned out that he and a few others had been stuck in Snow over Shap, They had even been making fires with wooden fencing, and oily rags from the engines. Yes, they were hero's in those days.

Still on the theme of Fred Rose. It's going back a long time now but I seem to recall most of the blokes that worked in the garage were called Harry, as were quite a few of the drivers. All in all, it could get somewhat confusing at times. One exception however was a bloke called Ted. I think he lived locally, Wingates or Howfen or somewhere not too distant. This chap used to smoke Capstan Full Strength, but interestingly, he reckoned to have a cigarette machine bolted to the wall in his house, just like the ones that you used to see in pubs. He said it saved him having to keep going out to the shop. Evidently, someone would call at his house every so often to empty the cash box and replenish the stock. Now how dedicated is that?

Gary I got a licence under,grandfathers rights. Before that as a Wiganer I thought it meant I could spit in't fire

Dad worked for Fred rose when I was a kid,school holidays I would ride with him, big adventure for me, was 12/13 year old , used to boast about going to Cardiff / Birmingham / even Yorkshire was foreign parts to me, dad couldn't take me in the yard being so young, used to wait on a bench on the A6 for him to come out, happy days

Ha ha ha you made me laugh with that one, AB.

I also went on journeys with Charlie Winstanley,who drove for Fred Rose.Heinz depots,Dundee, Cardiff, London,night and day.One wagon i remember was 780 BTJ a ERF.

I also went on journeys with Charlie Winstanley,who drove for Fred Rose.Heinz depots,Dundee, Cardiff, London,night and day.One wagon i remember was 780 BTJ a ERF.

Does anyone remember a big lad called Dave Golding that used to work there ?. They used to call him ' Cheyenne ', after the t.v. show of the time. He wasn't a driver, he was a driver's mate. He emigrated to Australia and drove the road trains out there before returning to the U.K. sometime in the 80's and went driving tippers. There was also a driver there from City Rd. in Pem called Arthur Rylance. His nickname was ' Chewy ' for his habit of constantly chewing gum.

Ozy

The only two drivers I remember were Bill Goff and Joe Hewitt. Bill lived in Holt St. Worsley Mesnes, Joe lived in the Pottery Road area. Bill was regarded as Fred's pet driver, he had the first of the new ERF's. Joe drove an old Atkinson 8 wheeler, FTB 7. For some inexplicable reason it was much faster than any of the other vehicles. The lorry was involved in a fatality at Goose Green finishing up outside Harrison's chip shop window. That was the chip shop on the Winstanley side of Warrington Road.

Cudworth St.off Pottery Terrace,where Joe Hewitt lived Keith.I think he ended his driving days,for Dick Cropper Enfield St.

Ozy,I remember the big lad Cheyenne he was a second man if
wagons went to Tate + Lyles in Liverpool if the load was
10 tons or more they had to have a second man I met
Cheyenne in L/pool at T+Lyles Fred Rose Worked for Silver
Roadways who did all the long distance for T+Lyles in the
early 1960s all the loads then were handball on and off D.C.

My dad used to drive for Fred Rose, in the 1950's and he used to send me to the village phone box to ring up an find out where he weas going that night. It used to be either London., Edinburgh, or Glasgow. As a young kid, I used to feel so grown up doing that role as messenger. You had to call the operator in those days, even for a local call, and before yjey installed a phone with a dial in the box at the junction of Church lane and Shevington Lane in Shevington, there was just a bell push to call tyhe operator. Even to this day, I remember Fred Rose's number. It was Westhoughton 3306. Imprinted on my memory as I asked the operator for it so many times. Fred Rose was nationalised as were all haulage companies when Labour came to power but he was able to buyb it back. from BRS when denationalisation of the haulage induastry took place. My dad was always a fan of Fodens and I guess Fred Rose was too as his fleet had many of them. My dad's name was Tommy Gallagher but I guess all the drivers from those days must be hauling thunderbolts in heaven these days lol

Just came across this page. Fred Rose was my grandfather and I remember the wagons very well. I have no records and only one small photo of the wagons. My father was Kenneth (my other name) Some the names you mention are familiar ...Jimmy Duerden definitely.