Wigan Album
Millgate
9 Comments
Photo: Keith
Item #: 22570
The reason I'm posting again is to establish roughly the date of the photo.
The photo on Ron's posting ascribes it to J Cooper but there is no date, however, the fish stones were removed, according to an architectural history of Wigan, by 1866.
Here is part of the description......."the site was formerly occupied by the Old Dog Inn and near the corner with Millgate stood the Ring O’ Bells. Between these was Wigan’s fishmarket – comprising fishstones – removed in 1866. Wigan’s medieval Market Cross is believed to have been located near the corner with Millgate".
This photo is from Bob Blakeman's "Wigan - A Historical View"
Interesting photo, but please explain what are the "fish stones".
This picture is already on the site. Fish Stones where were they sold fish from
Fish stones were originally bench-like stone slabs, on which the market fishmongers displayed their wares.
Often, even when the stones had gone, and been replaced by ordinary stalls, the area of a market given over to the sale of fish would be referred 'the fish stones'.
I’ve just re-read my comment attached to this photo and it gives completely the wrong impression - what I meant to say is that Ron’s photo is clearer than the one I’ve posted, this can be checked by going to.....
http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/photo.php?opt=5&id=1556&gallery=Millgate&offset=0
not only that Ron’s photo of the “New Town Hall” is also much clearer and better than the one I posted, to check this go to.........
http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/photo.php?opt=5&id=4182&gallery=Market+Place%2C+Wigan&offset=40
Apologies Ron.
Keith, I think you are right about the date of the picture -somewhere in the mid 1860s or maybe a bit later.
I noticed the names over the shops, Burgess and Peterkin, so I looked in the 1869 directory which you can find on 'STUFF' on Wigan World.
If you click on 'P' you'll find John Peterkin, Family Grocer and Tea Dealer, 33 Market Place, Wigan.
No 'Burgess' in Market Place listed but you can find him in the 1871 Census. Charles Burgess, Draper employing 5 hands, born in Davenham Cheshire. Age 27. At 33 Market Place living with his wife and one servant.
The census shows that the shops are sandwiched between the Ring o' Bells and Old Dog Yard.
Ten years later Charles Burgess had moved down to Wallgate somewhere near Queen Street and was listed as a Linen Draper.
Have you looked on youtube at Living Wigan 1902, a short film of a tram going along Market Place? At the end of the film the camera pans round along those shops and stops at the end of Millgate. As far as I can see, demolition and rebuilding in Wigan is nothing new!
Thank you Cathy for your interesting information. I’ve seen the fascinating 1902 film “Living Wigan” but also the Mitchell and Kenyon film clip, from the turn of last century, of horse drawn carriages thundering past the large lamp situated in the middle of the road between the Minorca and Clarence Hotel.
I posted some stills from this on “ww” a while ago, they are here......
http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/photo.php?opt=4&id=10129&gallery=Wallgate&offset=0
I agree buildings are constantly changing and that will always continue but one feature of Wigan has remained constant, since medieval times, and that is the street layout, according to experts.
I, along with many other Wigan born people, complain loudly and rightly when we see “official vandalism” of much loved buildings and there is no doubt that this has happened. In a sense, however, Wigan has been “lucky” in some respects, because town re-development has come much later than it has to other towns.
As a result it has been spared the worst of blighted town development and it has been completed, in some cases, more sensitively. In other words it could have been much, much worse. On the whole I share Bryson’s view that Wigan has a town centre with character.
I have used your suggestion and gone to the 1869 Directory and can now confirm the names on the three signs above the shops in the photo, are as you say, Peterkin and Burgess.
The “missing” name is the first one, George Munro & Co., wine, spirit, ale and porter merchants, 10 Millgate which is a surprise but the shop is on a corner and does occupy a place in Millgate and Market Place, the postal address must have been Millgate.
I think I remember Munro’s from living in Wigan in the 1950’s and 60’s, where my father was a pub landlord for 24 years.
It sounds as if you haven't been to Wigan recently Keith and seen our latest shopping centre, the Grand Arcade.
There's nothing wrong with it but a town the size of Wigan cannot support two shopping centres, so the Galleries has suffered, with many empty units.
It seemed so obvious that this would happen when the plans for the Grand Arcade were revealed that I thought that the council must have A PLAN! What had they got in mind? Perhaps to encourage the banks, building societies and estate agents to move into the Galleries. Or perhaps some kind of council administration or health authority use?
But there was apparently no plan.
The Grand Arcade was built on top of wonderful Roman remains that were excavated in Millgate and we have to be satisfied with a Disneyland version of 'Roman Remains' tucked away in a corner.
We'll wait in anticipation to see what happens next!
isnt it where yorkshire bank is now on that corner ?
Have to admit I don't get to Wigan very often these days Cathy so I have to take your word for it. However, it's gratifying to know that there are people such as yourself keeping a "watching brief" over events and keeping the powers that be, "on their toes", so to speak.