Wigan Album

20 bridges dave and 13 bridges(dominoes)
as darren harlow calls em

always knew them as 20 and 7 bridges

did dave get the same book as me for xmas cos thats where all these photos are from (The Lancashire Union Railway by Dennis Sweeney)

I hope he got permission to use these photos, from the publishers. There is such a thing as copyright!!!!!

yes they are out of a book. whats wrong with showing em other poeple on here.get a life you two next youll be saying you never owned a video you know to tape all your soaps.let poeple enjoy the photos.

must admit i thought they were original photos
at the very least reference should have been made by the original poster to the book from where they were taken instead of claiming them as 'his'
by the way, where can I get the book from?

"dave", there's a world of difference between taking a copy of a TV film or programme for your own use and passing off others' pics as your own in a public forum. the idea of this site, as I understand it, is to bring out into a public forum interesting local pics which would otherwise not see the light of day. Copying pics already in the public domain, whether by scanning copyright pics from books, or taking them off others' websites, hardly fits the bill. And not attributing the source just adds insult to injury. But we've had this argument before....

scholes malc i have put refrence to who the photos belong to.a couple didnt have names though.i would never try an make out these has my own. just wanted you all to see em

Might be wrong but if you're not making any money out of them and you referance them there isn't a Court in World would take it on,bit like borrowing a book from a Library.

point taken Dave - great photos though and of particular personnal interest and I must admit I would have been unaware of them if you had not brought them to our attention - so thanks!

Whats the best way to get to this viaduct never been before.

Mick P - I think you are wrong on all your points. Copyright issues only get to court if the demand by the copyright holder for payment for using an image is not met. That's up to the copyright holder to take action.... You are allowed to publish a limited amount of copyright material, for instance, if you're reviewing a book. Most authors would probably welcome such publicity. Until this thread developed, the title of the book from which these images had been scanned was not given, although it was obvious that they were scanned images, and the names of some of the photographers were given.I don't think it too much to ask that, at the very least, posters should give credit where it's due when submitting other people's images. Personally, I'd rather see one hitherto unseen family/ local interest photo, on almost any subject, than a dozen lifted out of books or off websites.

Please gents, as long as the not for Commercial gain ie to make money, that I'm sure Dave isn't. Dave has named the photographer's and the books his. Lets enjoy them, he makes nothing out of it just to give people like you and I pleasure on Wigan World.

So long as you name the photographer and give them credit there shouldn't be a problem Dave, and I can see you have. Thanks for giving up you time for people to see them on Wigan World.

Look at the ones you want to, pass on the rest,thats what I do.

I think the Rev's after making a problem, let it go! it's done now and I would think Dave's got the message.

I would guess most of Wigan World photos have breached copy rights some time or other.

"Neither do I too"
Stan Laurel

I wish you lot would create as much fuss over the fact that the local footpath network could have taken advantage of the viaducts as a route to see a great deal more of Douglas Valley around Boars Head and the surrounding areas, instead of being barricaded up, firstly by the Local Farmer and no doubt latterly by Elfin Safety . ps, looks like the good Reverend has has had another slack Christmas giving him plenty time to educate us plebs !

Well said Wigan Lane Warrior.

Superb photos Dave, thanks for sharing them. A quick "google" of whelley loop line lead me to these superb photos.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/b3tarev3/sets/72157622055667708/

There are many ways to the Whelley loop line Rebian, but first what part of Wigan are you from?

I'm sure you are correct in what you say Rev Long but I just feel I have to say that I'm glad I'm not one of your parishoners.
I have noticed many times before that you seem to enjoy trying to upset people and making them appear foolish and dishonest, when I feel certain that no plagiarism was intended.

It would indeed have been nice to have kept the decks on the structures and employed them as footpaths. However the costs involved to regularly inspect, maintain and insure them will have been prohibative against and advantages or gains.

Dave seems to be hounded unfairly by one or two individuals on this page, Oh and the Rev had to have his say in more detail. Dave is a true and honest chap and never at any time claimed the photos are his, he has credited each photographer when he can. His intension is only to share some of the photos of the Whelley line on Wigan World for people to enjoy over the Christmas holiday period.

Dave meant no harm at all.

Bridge Engineer: it's almost 40 years since trains ran over the Whelley Viaduct, although still intact it's slowly crumbling away...how long could it last without repairs in your opinion.

The fact the decks have been removed suggests that at the time of removal the decks were A) Unsafe, or B) About to become unsafe in the short term. As is so often the case these decisions are based on financial terms and sentiment plays little part, people forget that bridges like all structures cost money to maintain regardless of how they are used. Bridges of this scale can easily cost in excess of £100k pa just to maintain to an acceptable standard and if a serious structual problem was to develop the costs to repair could run into several million. I assume whoever now has responsibilty for the remaining structure has better and more beneficial things to do with their funds in the present economic climate than maintain or restore what is essentialy a redundant structure. There maybe sources for funding to restore the structures and replace the decks but given the costs involved there would need to be a very strong and beneficial reason for doing so. Over the past 50 years several hundred similar railway bridges up and down the country have become redundant and are in similar condition. The question those with the money will ask is what, apart from paraochalism makes this one so special and worthy of investement?

Hi John I'm coming from marus bridge, if i turn right at boars head can you get to it from around there ?

I googled it, pinpointed wigan hospital....then moved upto wingates road, then it turns into pendlebury lane....one end of the bridge is half way up that lane :-)

The book these images are lifted off can be found on the Triangle Publishing website (just google the words, it's the first result) I bought one direct from the author, and it's a cracking read.
20 Bridges still stands over the Douglas Valley. It's sealed at both ends. The south by the Farmer previously mentioned, and the north end by a large fence erected by Wigan Council. It's possible to circumnavigate the fence with a little effort.
I used to 'muck around' on the viaduct about twenty years back when it was still accesible. I remember a mate and I uprooting a small tree, and spending the best part of an hour dragging it up onto the viaduct, so we could chuck it in the Douggie below. Imagine our dissapointment when the expected 'KER-SPLOSH' was nothing more than a small plop!
Directions to the south end of the viaduct (Leyland Mill Lane, Wingates Rd, Pendlebury Ln) have already been mentioned. To get to the north end of the viaduct, head out of Wigan along the A49 towards Chorley, and turn right onto the A5106 Chorley Road at The Boars Head pub. About half a mile down Chorley Rd there's a road off to the right called Richmond Close. On entering this you'll see a large wooden gate straight facing you. This is the track bed of the former Whelley Loop. After climbing over the gate, turn right and about twenty yards away is the fencing on the north end of the viaduct.

Thanks

The viaduct has been closed for years and obviously anybody climbing over fences etc to get on it is trespassing. Any moves to open it up have been refused because of the enormous cost and because lots of bats nest there! Not many people walk the Whelley loop line at that end any way.There are plenty more paths in the area. I was not allowed to post a copy of newspaper photo beacuase it showed names of the team. Why was this photo allowed?

Not trespassing it's a public right of way, there's more photos of this viaduct and the Whelley line on Wigan World than any other Railways in Wigan and rightly so. Why your newspaper clip wasn't shown I dont know I can only assume yours was poor quality.

It's a cracking photo this, and there's been many.

Around Lancashire you can find fine examples of disused viaducts that are maintained as a public right of way - Healey Dell to name one. Standish Viaduct should be opened up as a public right of way, but with the lack of interest/ funding from the local council i'm afraid hell will freeze over first!
So the vidauct will continue to crumble away and the people who live along the disused line will continue to fly tip, land grab and make any visitors to the viaduct very un welcome indeed. So,if you are able,get over that fence and take a look at the old girl before she finally goes :D

The Viaduct will end up like the TV History channel "Life without people" because no one cares about it. Who really owns it...the railways or the council, is it on farm land???

Does anybody know who's erected the fence, and how high is it. I'd love to see this viaduct before she gives up her fight for survival.

How could a railway line ever be a public right of way? It has never been a road or a footpath or a bridleway. It was built as a railway.

the photo was posted but I hadto send the team names separately.

Frank-just have a look at the same line next to Morrisons supermarket in Ince, the council's made that a lovely walk-way all the way to Whelley and beyond.

full page article on the author and book in todays Wigan Evening Post with details on how to obtain the book locally

The books been out for weeks-dont need the Post to tell me that, it's always old news anyway in that paper.

The Whelley loop line and Boars Head viaduct are owned by Wigan Metro and are part of the Greenheart Access Strategy. This quotes "the viaduct requires considerable investment, repairs, " etc. It is classed as a "Long term" strategy.

Rev David Long: With reference to your upsetting comments on the originality of the very interesting photoraphs Dave so kindly and thoughtfully put onto Wigan World. It is very unapprieciative that you can comment on the origininality of the photographs when all this site does is to join people together in sharing happy memories of the past. No intention was to make money and as you show in your name you are a Reverend and should understand the meaning of human beings congregating together to share experiences. This was done just as that and no other intentions.
Images are shown through various sources and many are shown in a church. Do you get copy right from this? Whether you do or you don't these images are for pleasure to other people and hopefully this just does that and not in for it in any financial gain. No advertising gain and certainly no collection box.
Hopefully you can understand this and not get on your high horse(pulpit) and critisise our wonderful heritage. Yours Sincerely and with all the good will in the world (which i do not think you have)

I walked the Whelley Loop today, disappointed to find the viaduct fenced off. Indeed an absurd situation from south side, with steps up from Senicar Lane and 2 stiles on a good footpath leading nowhere - not even a viable exit to Pendlebury Lane! The viaduct is indeed public property (British Railways or Wigan Council nowadays?). Technically it IS also a public right of way, since after the railway closed in 1978 it was used as a public footpath for much longer than the statutory 12 years without "let or hindrance" and as far as I can recall no signs saying it was not a dedicated right of way!
There is a delightful path down to the River Douglas off Pendlebury Lane to North of the viaduct, through bluebell woods, from which the viaduct may be viewed. A simple, cheap solution to the access problem would surely then be a simple footbridge over the river and steps back up to the railway route on the other side, together with some vegetation clearance to give a better view of this spectacular structure - so how about it, Wigan??
I note that Bolton Council has recently spent a lot of money re-opening Burden and Darcy Lever Viaducts as public paths, albeit with ugly metal "cages" to keep the wandering public safe.

It is a real hidden gem of Wigan - almost impossible to get a good view of it now as it is obscured by trees - I would be interested to know who owns the adjoining land it is obviously being used many trails and off road biking trails - would be great if the access was controlled and made safe for viewing - it would actually be great if the whole of the Whelley Loop line could be made into a cycle track / footpath - also the section between Sennecar Lane and Pendlebury Road has been built over and there is no clear footpath or exit / entry on Pendlebury Lane - great shame that the Council will lose this asset through neglect. Accept that it is not high priority in current financial circumstances - but as with many things - you don't know what you have till it's gone.